Kicked out of Nitrox Class!!

[ssidiv3r]

That is free enterprise economy for you. Naturally, with the advent of online shopping, LDS's will take a knock. In fact, some of them will not survive as you have just pointed out. It's sad for that particular LDS and its loyal supporters but for free enterprise its great. It means more competition which means more options and better service for the consumer.

Now obviously not all LDS's will go wallop, there will always be a need for them so there will always be some that survive. Which ones will that be? Obviously they can't compete with online stores on prices so they will have to excel in something that the online stores can't offer. I guess that would be good service. Seems to me the LDS that the OP posted about is exactly the kind of LDS that deserve to go wallop because they're not willing to offer that kind of service.

Online retailers will never be able to provide air/nitrox/trimix fills unless they have a store base (like Scuba Toys I believe). In that case they pretty much become an LDS

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

She understood and then asked do you mine telling me where you bought them and I responded that "you don't want to know." She said oh it's ok I said "on line" Well that was the wrong answer!!! She Judy said"I'll tell you what I am going to do I am going give your check back the class is over because you have no appriciation of a local dive shop and the services we provide and you care more about money than service".

I don't see the problem here: You obviously don't want to do business with her and she doesn't want to do business with you. Therefore, she gives you your money back. I'm sorry you wasted your time signing up for the course and going down there. That is unfortunate.

LDS' do not make money on training, they do it to attract and keep customers who buy gear from them. If you buy gear online and take training from them, you are taking advantage of them. It's The Great (North) American Way to find opportunities to exploit business opportunities, so I do not criticize you for shopping on line and trying to train in an LDS, but it's also The Great American Way for a business owner to say "I don't want to do business with you."

This LDS owner really could have been nicer about it, but at the end of the day every good business knows what kinds of customers it wants and should work hard to get rid of the ones that aren't profitable for them.

My suggestion, quite honesty, is that you deal with independent instructors. They only make money from training, so they aren't losing sleep over where you buy your gear. Typically, they will charge a bit more than an LDS because they usually don't have a classroom full of people, it's 1:1 or 1:2 or 1:4. But you get more attention that way. Win-win!

 

[seaducer]

LDS' do not make money on training, they do it to attract and keep customers who buy gear from them. If you buy gear online and take training from them, you are taking advantage of them.

That is their own stupidity, and a situation that they made themselves.

FWIW if shops really took the time to provide top of the line training, they could charge more for it, and turn a profit at the same time. You don't have to provide training at a loss, that is a choice.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

I know this woman, and don't find her to be too much of a "people person." Doesn't seem to do well when someone presents opinions that aren't in alignment with hers.

ROFLCopter!!!

Total hijack here, but many successful business people are not people-people. It's their way or the highway. Anecodtal case in point: a shop in town called "E----- B----," it is a warehouse-type retailer of adventure gear. The owner can be abrasive when riled, and if you don't care for the way he wants to do business, you shop elsewhere. But he has four or five locations and seems to make the payments on his fleet of sports cars.

This is not bi-conditional: many unsuccessful people are not business people either.

 

[divermatt]

I'm just glad the OP has good anger management. I might have tried to O2 clean the LDS owner's lungs.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

You don't have to provide training at a loss, that is a choice.

Obviously it's a choice she exercised when she kicked the OP out of the class. It seems we have a point of agreement.

Look, there are two ways to build a business model. In the first way, you scheme and scheme to make it bullet-proof. You look for all of the little chinks where someone can take advantage of you and you lose money, and you design your promotions and what-not so that the "loophole" is closed.

In the second way, you simply run your business on the fly, and when something comes up that seems to cost you money, you shut it down or say "no."

The second strategy requires a business owner that is very active in the business, while the first scales up a lot better because you can have less committed people on the front line. It's how most small business has to work.

So the LDS chooses to have training as a loss leader, but then realized that this student was a loss but unlikely to lead to more business, so she chose to say "no."

Shrug. What's the big whup here?

 

[OldNSalty]

So the LDS chooses to have training as a loss leader, but then realized that this student was a loss but unlikely to lead to more business, so she chose to say "no."

Shrug. What's the big whup here?

Its unprofessional. If I had been one of the other students in the class I would have asked for my check back as well and left with the OP. She's running a business (badly), I am paying for a service and I have certain expectations. She can elect to ignore those expectations and go out of business. No big whup to me, I can always find another dive shop.

 

[redacted]

Would this be the shop? We B Divin' - For Your Ultimate Diving Experience

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Its unprofessional. If I had been one of the other students in the class I would have asked for my check back as well and left with the OP. She's running a business (badly), I am paying for a service and I have certain expectations. She can elect to ignore those expectations and go out of business. No big whup to me, I can always find another dive shop.

Exactly. Freedom of choice cuts both ways. It seems to me the situation worked out well for all parties concerned, and it is an interesting scenario for discussion.

 

[J.R.]

NudeDiver seems to have offered up a test... I *love* tests... let me take a stab at it and see how I do...

What - next time I go to the Jeep dealer for something and he asks me where I buy my oil and where I do my oil changes, or where I bought my big ass tires, is he supposed to get all pissed off at me?

Depends on whether the dealer sells big ass tires and whether he had a bad night the night before... and whether you wandered in telling him how over priced HIS big-assed tires were and how you bought them MUCH cheaper down the road... ... and, interestingly... if you buy an extended warrantee and have an engine failure... it can be MUCH easier getting the insurance to do what insurance is supposed to do if you have the oil changed at the dealer... it documents that recommeneded service was performed on schedule and that the engine didn't die of *abuse* because of missed oil changes... improperly done oil changes...or any other questions about the oil changes the insurance company might want to pose without the supporting documentation

One has nothing to do with the other. So, a guy buys a service from you, and now he is supposed to buy products from you? Why??

... ummm... because of the same mindset some parents have that their childred should be eternally indebted to them for simple fact they brought them into the world???

I took my Nitrox class in Florida. Showed up with all of my own gear. Didn't buy jack from them. Should they deny my business??? Guess how many friends or relatives the OP is going to send to this shop in the future....

The "I'll take my business elsewhere" threat and the "I'll NOT be refering you to my two friends" threat doesn't hold much water in a world of shotgun marketing... they'll *tell you* they're concerned... but they aren't...

I should get a t-short that reads, "Do you like your schools? I need money to pay my property taxes to support those schools. If you like your schools, please support me by buying something from me."

... and I wear t-shorts that read, "I don't have any kids... the schools suck... stop forcing your politics down my throat and give me a DISCOUNT for what you're probably ripping me off for anyway..." or "I have charities I already support... give me a discount so that I can continue my good works."

I agree. You can't buy training on the internet. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that shops should charge more for training, rather than doing it at a loss. Duh!!!!

People will just start whining about the shops charging more for training... the REAL issue is that a lot of the pholks diving really can't afford it... and rather than fessin' up to the fact they'll whine that everybody is stealing them blind, there should be government supports... we should take from the rich (dive shops) to endow the poor (... anybody who really can't afford to dive)... blah... blah... blah...

GUE refuses smokers. How do they get away with that then?

Said, "No"... just a guess... :doh2:

Lots of places have such a sign. It may as well say, "I reserve the right to be sued".

... anybody can sue anybody over anything at any tiime... the real question is how long it will take the judge to stop laughing before they throw it out of court. (And there *could* be a shark in the water that has a personal vendetta against you... boo... ) :cool2:

Question: If being an LDS is such a hard, awful, hard-to-make a profit business to be in, then why do it? Love of diving or whatever? Hint: it's often not wise to make a business out of a hobby.

No fair... you answered the question for me... ;-(

Question: if I go to Blockbuster and get my 99 cent video, but stop at the grocery store to get my 75 cent M&Ms, instead of paying $2.00 for the same thing at Blockbuster, am I a bad consumer?

The world ecconomy (or what's left of it) will probably collapse because of your unwillingess to pay way beyond retail in order to keep the universal cash-flow-thingie going... next thing ya' know, Blockbuster will be going to the Government for a bail-out so that millions won't be put out of work causing an ecconomic cascade into mutually assured poverty... no... wait... that's Detroit...

Question: if there are multiple dive shops in town, and I buy stuff from all of them, and I just a bad person?

That depends... do you meticulously balance your spending so that you spend equal amounts between them? (How many regs can you fit into your reg bag??? A: Irrelevant... buy a bigger reg bag and then there won't be a problem).

Question: if the Chevy dealership we bought my wife's car from finds out we bought a Jeep from somewhere else, should they tell us to take our Chevy elsewhere if it needs to be fixed?

Wow... this is a tough one... but then... Dealerships do offer "loyalty" discounts to previous customers that they don't offer to those who have NOT bought there before... of course... this is offset by "NEW CUSTOMER discounts" that they offer to customers of other dealers to coax them away and into the dark side... these generally are about the same dollar value as the "loyalty discount"... wierd, eh?

This whole flipping arugement is a red-herring...

1: There ARE alternatives to buying at retail (or 10% off) if you choose to employ them... and this 'false sensitivity' people have to a dive shop's reacting is silly... if you're independant enough to go ebaying... or on-line shoping... and then wander into to your LDS with it... I'm guessing you've probably got a thick enough hide to deal with their reaction... and then tote it over to SB where you can dramatically post it to get the troops riled up...

2: To assume that the customer has a right to demand a dive shop work a certain way is as stupid as a dive shop demanding a customer work in a certain way.

3: People aren't bitchin' because the dive shop is using poor practices... what the heck do most people care... if the LDS is so poorly run they'll go away right? You don't NEED them right? So... why should you care if they go away? (I find it interesting that somebody posted that the LDS in question 5 YEARS AGO is still in business... guess they can't be *too* screwed up...)

4: If you can't afford diving... DON'T DIVE... (or get a better job)... Diving (dispite what PADI sez) isn't for everybody... it's flippin' expensive and it costs lots of money too. The further you get away from an ocean the more expensive it can become...

... sheesh... how many egos can you fit in one quarry???