LCHF or Ketogenic Diet

[Mrs. B]

This is more MHO than based on proper cites, but I sincerely believe that skipping breakfast is one of the less smart things to do if you want to lose weight. At night, your metabolism turns itself down. If you don't eat breakfast, your body won't get any signal to switch from night mode to day mode, and your metabolism will be low. A moderate breakfast, with a balanced ratio of carb/protein/fat, will tell your body that the fasting period is over, and that it's time to hit the accelerator. As a bonus, you'll feel more energetic in the morning. If you plan on reducing your calorie intake, start at the other end (supper) and work your way backwards.

Carbs are rather vital for maximum physical performance; there's a pretty good reason that sport drinks and "gels" are basically sugar. I've experienced some pretty amazing reactions to those "gels" (which really are just concentrated glucose syrups with a little added flavor) on the tail end of 100+ k bike rides. It was like a turbocharging of my thighs.

For more than 30 years, I've been doing mountain hikes of 6-10 hours, and for me, a good bowl of oatmeal is the perfect basis for any breakfast on such a day, because oats contain some extremely slow carbs which do a darned good job of preventing your glycogen stores from running empty. Have you ever "crashed" from running out of glycogen? It's a damned uncomfortable experience, and IME the best cure is some fast carbs like chocolate, granola bars or a powerbar, followed by some slower carbs to keep you going when the insulin hit wears off.

My most successful weight loss projects have two things in common: oats - either rolled oats as a breakfast cereal or cooked oatmeal - for breakfast, and a sharp reduction in the amount of calories consumed after noon. The oats keep my blood sugar at a low, but sufficient level, and the calories are cut from the meals that are closest to my rest period when I don't really need those calories. And, of course, getting tired and sweaty more often.

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Salk

 

[mcohen1021]

The oats keep my blood sugar at a low, but sufficient level, and the calories are cut from the meals that are closest to my rest period when I don't really need those calories. And, of course, getting tired and sweaty more often.

^^Thanks. For years I have eaten whatever i wanted to and I knew that once [competitive] waterskiing season came around, all that extra few lbs would come right off. Well, the last 2-3 yrs, that changed as i got older. 2017 I skied more this year than the last 2-3 seasons combined - I did not lose a single pound. So I knew I had to do something because at 5'10" I had no intention of going over the 200# mark.

I have slowly put a few carbs back in here and there testing the waters, but no way no how am I letting myself get back to 198.

Anyone seen any good sales on jeans and board shorts?

 

[Storker]

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Salk

I'll read and consider a coherent argument. I won't watch some YT video that's just thrown out like that. Just linking to a video is intellectual laziness.

 

[uncfnp]

This is more MHO than based on proper cites, but I sincerely believe that skipping breakfast is one of the less smart things to do if you want to lose weight. At night, your metabolism turns itself down. If you don't eat breakfast, your body won't get any signal to switch from night mode to day mode, and your metabolism will be low. A moderate breakfast, with a balanced ratio of carb/protein/fat, will tell your body that the fasting period is over, and that it's time to hit the accelerator. As a bonus, you'll feel more energetic in the morning. If you plan on reducing your calorie intake, start at the other end (supper) and work your way backwards.

Carbs are rather vital for maximum physical performance; there's a pretty good reason that sport drinks and "gels" are basically sugar. I've experienced some pretty amazing reactions to those "gels" (which really are just concentrated glucose syrups with a little added flavor) on the tail end of 100+ k bike rides. It was like a turbocharging of my thighs.

For more than 30 years, I've been doing mountain hikes of 6-10 hours, and for me, a good bowl of oatmeal is the perfect basis for any breakfast on such a day, because oats contain some extremely slow carbs which do a darned good job of preventing your glycogen stores from running empty. Have you ever "crashed" from running out of glycogen? It's a damned uncomfortable experience, and IME the best cure is some fast carbs like chocolate, granola bars or a powerbar, followed by some slower carbs to keep you going when the insulin hit wears off.

My most successful weight loss projects have two things in common: oats - either rolled oats as a breakfast cereal or cooked oatmeal - for breakfast, and a sharp reduction in the amount of calories consumed after noon. The oats keep my blood sugar at a low, but sufficient level, and the calories are cut from the meals that are closest to my rest period when I don't really need those calories. And, of course, getting tired and sweaty more often.

Hi Storker.

Much of what you wrote is true, when you are running on carbs. Its not true when your body has switched to nutritional ketosis. Your body is no longer fuel dependent on carbs so none of the high/low points you get with carbs and carb loading. Instead there is a steady state of energy available for use. This is why they are finding ketosis may be beneficial for endurance atheletes. For sprinters, they may actual benefit from a carb load before the event.

To help aid the discussion, much do you know about glucose metabolism and insulin resistance?

 

[lowviz]

OK, this is getting interesting.

@uncfnp Back when I used to run, the conventional wisdom was to lose white fat and ADD brown fat.

"Carbo packing" was all the rage. I'm asking you as someone with FAR more medical training and experience than I, do the hormones released from the two types of fat have anything to do with this conversation?

 

[Storker]

To help aid the discussion, much do you know about glucose metabolism and insulin resistance?

Nothing more than the average higher educated guy with a background in biochem, a first-hand experience with competitive sports from martial arts to endurance sports and a keen interest in nutrition. And as a fly on the wall to the advice my son got from his coach when he made it on the youth national team in his sport.

How so?

 

[Mrs. B]

This is more MHO than based on proper cites, but I sincerely believe that skipping breakfast is one of the less smart things to do if you want to lose weight. At night, your metabolism turns itself down. If you don't eat breakfast, your body won't get any signal to switch from night mode to day mode, and your metabolism will be low. A moderate breakfast, with a balanced ratio of carb/protein/fat, will tell your body that the fasting period is over, and that it's time to hit the accelerator. As a bonus, you'll feel more energetic in the morning. If you plan on reducing your calorie intake, start at the other end (supper) and work your way backwards.

Carbs are rather vital for maximum physical performance; there's a pretty good reason that sport drinks and "gels" are basically sugar. I've experienced some pretty amazing reactions to those "gels" (which really are just concentrated glucose syrups with a little added flavor) on the tail end of 100+ k bike rides. It was like a turbocharging of my thighs.

For more than 30 years, I've been doing mountain hikes of 6-10 hours, and for me, a good bowl of oatmeal is the perfect basis for any breakfast on such a day, because oats contain some extremely slow carbs which do a darned good job of preventing your glycogen stores from running empty. Have you ever "crashed" from running out of glycogen? It's a damned uncomfortable experience, and IME the best cure is some fast carbs like chocolate, granola bars or a powerbar, followed by some slower carbs to keep you going when the insulin hit wears off.

My most successful weight loss projects have two things in common: oats - either rolled oats as a breakfast cereal or cooked oatmeal - for breakfast, and a sharp reduction in the amount of calories consumed after noon. The oats keep my blood sugar at a low, but sufficient level, and the calories are cut from the meals that are closest to my rest period when I don't really need those calories. And, of course, getting tired and sweaty more often.

I’d argue your hikes keep you insulin sensitive at the receptors and that’s why you can consume carbs successfully

Most people that are overweight are metabolically deranged and need to shift into fat burning which they can’t do with your steady stream of carbohydrate.

I run everyday in fasted state and strive to keep insulin levels low (~3 IU)
Also some researchers argue that insulin sensitivity rises mid afternoon

Lots of exciting research regarding cancer risk and overall reduced carbohydrate load
(UCSD)

Although I don’t do Keto (too low for optimal gut microbiome) 50-75 gam carb is ideal for me individually with current activity level

Sedentary people who want weight loss might need to go lower and my husband who does CrossFit and four three mile runs weekly requires
closer to 100-150’Gms

Generally insulin sensitivity decreases with age but skeletal muslcle plays and important role as a glucose “sump”

The newer science recognizes the role of the hormonal mileu (insulin etc) and not just
CICO (calories in; calories out)

 

[Mrs. B]

I'll read and consider a coherent argument. I won't watch some YT video that's just thrown out like that. Just linking to a video is intellectual laziness.

Others might find it interesting

 

[Storker]

I’d argue your hikes keep you insulin sensitive at the receptors and that’s why you can consume carbs successfully

I'd argue that my - admittedly insufficiently - a moderately active lifestyle keeps the body in tune with what it's evolved for and able to respond properly to conditions and its own hormone signals.

There's no magic bullet, even though people have been looking frantically for it for decades, perhaps even centuries. The LCHF/ketogenic diet is just another of those failed magic bullets, like the pineapple diet of the 60s. Eat a balanced diet, exercise properly, lead a physically active life (i.e. walk or bike, don't drive when possible) and quit chasing the magic bullet. That'll take you much further than subscribing to Atkins or any other prophets.

 

[uncfnp]

OK, this is getting interesting.

@uncfnp Back when I used to run, the conventional wisdom was to lose white fat and ADD brown fat.

"Carbo packing" was all the rage. I'm asking you as someone with FAR more medical training and experience than I, do the hormones released from the two types of fat have anything to do with this conversation?

I may be medical but this discussion really isn’t my area. However, the obesity epidemic in America and it’s associated health issues are.

They did a study in mice (unfortunately a lot of the ketogenic research is still at the rodent level) fed KD vs “chow pellets.” The KD mice lost weight and while the amount of brown fat did not directly increase the proportion in relation to weight did.

And to Storker’s contention it is “calories in calories out” (and I use to say this too), both groups had the same caloric intake but the KD group lost weight. The chow group gained.