The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Thats sounds closer to reality, Mike.
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chrpai
Contributor
ckharlan66:
Why do you want to count the cost of the overhead of the employees but not bill the value of the class fills towards the income from the classes? Seems to me if they didn't have those fills there wouldn't be any classes.
A gauge is $25.00. Really. I put interstage gauges on mine and bought 'em locally - $25 each for glycerine-damped ones.
I am NOT assuming no repairs other than scheduled maintenance. Indeed, I'm assuming that the compressor is junk after 2,000 operating hours, and accounting for its entire cost in that time.
That's grossly pessimistic unless you massively abuse the unit - and if you do, that's your own fault.
Your unit cost more, but it pumps grossly more air than mine. Therefore, while the operating cost per hour is higher, the output per hour is higher too. The two balance out.
If you spent four times as much for the unit (all up) but pump 2 times the gas in the same unit of time, and your filter time costs half what I spend (due to the larger filter elements) then you actually end up at about the same place I do.
Since the MAJORITY of costs are in fact filter time, and the small filters I use are radically more expensive per cubic-foot to use than the larger ones, your actual per-cf costs are likely lower than mine are.
The only assumption there is that you change filters based on volume and NOT time (they DO have a rated time OR cf - exceed either and you're supposed to change them.) If you overbought capacity for your actual use by enough that you're throwing away half-spent filters due to time constraints, then your costs are higher - but again, that's your own fault for improperly sizing the unit.
You are correct in that I am not buying insurance or air testing; I am, however, testing for CO regularly (since I happen to have a high-precision CO meter) and have a humidity monitor inline with the output; the odds of me having an oil problem with the HF inline are vanishingly small. Since I don't SELL gas I don't need to spend money on those other two items.
(BTW, a "shop size" compressor for personal use will, of course, be more expensive to buy - but probably not more expensive to operate. For personal use, buying one is kinda silly. You're a special case, in that you already have it.....)
The numbers extrapolate pretty well Mike; I've run 'em for a larger unit and if I was pumping the volume to justify a 7.5cf compressor (e.g. a Bauer Mariner) the operating costs would be almost identical. The reason I did NOT buy a larger one is that I calculated that I would often be throwing away half-spent filters in the larger unit - which would radically drive up my operating expenses.
I am NOT assuming no repairs other than scheduled maintenance. Indeed, I'm assuming that the compressor is junk after 2,000 operating hours, and accounting for its entire cost in that time.
That's grossly pessimistic unless you massively abuse the unit - and if you do, that's your own fault.
Your unit cost more, but it pumps grossly more air than mine. Therefore, while the operating cost per hour is higher, the output per hour is higher too. The two balance out.
If you spent four times as much for the unit (all up) but pump 2 times the gas in the same unit of time, and your filter time costs half what I spend (due to the larger filter elements) then you actually end up at about the same place I do.
Since the MAJORITY of costs are in fact filter time, and the small filters I use are radically more expensive per cubic-foot to use than the larger ones, your actual per-cf costs are likely lower than mine are.
The only assumption there is that you change filters based on volume and NOT time (they DO have a rated time OR cf - exceed either and you're supposed to change them.) If you overbought capacity for your actual use by enough that you're throwing away half-spent filters due to time constraints, then your costs are higher - but again, that's your own fault for improperly sizing the unit.
You are correct in that I am not buying insurance or air testing; I am, however, testing for CO regularly (since I happen to have a high-precision CO meter) and have a humidity monitor inline with the output; the odds of me having an oil problem with the HF inline are vanishingly small. Since I don't SELL gas I don't need to spend money on those other two items.
(BTW, a "shop size" compressor for personal use will, of course, be more expensive to buy - but probably not more expensive to operate. For personal use, buying one is kinda silly. You're a special case, in that you already have it.....)
The numbers extrapolate pretty well Mike; I've run 'em for a larger unit and if I was pumping the volume to justify a 7.5cf compressor (e.g. a Bauer Mariner) the operating costs would be almost identical. The reason I did NOT buy a larger one is that I calculated that I would often be throwing away half-spent filters in the larger unit - which would radically drive up my operating expenses.
Oh I forgot to factor in that the dive season here is 4 months so in the off season I would estimate that they might do 5-10 fills a month. So the numbers would be more like $50 a month. So for 4 months they get about $250 so thats about $1000 and for the other 8 months they get about $50 so that would be about $400. So with nice round numbers they might gross about $1500 from the compressor. Minus filters, electricity, employee time, insurance, testing costs, O2, etc.
The benefits are they have to have it for some dealerships and they need air for classes. Also if local divers can't get air they don't need to buy gear.
Chad
The benefits are they have to have it for some dealerships and they need air for classes. Also if local divers can't get air they don't need to buy gear.
Chad
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
So how long DOES it take to fill a tank on your system Karl?
chrpai:
You have to allocate the costs. The costs of the fills for classes are allocated to the classes and the costs of the other fills are allocated to the price of fills. You have to assume that the price of the class fills are allocated to the class.
Chad
Genesis:
It doesn't mean that they're lying. It means that they don't know what the tem is inside the tank when it's being filled and that's the temp they would need to know.
With some practice you can get a feel for how far to overshoot the tank so that it's close to full when it cools.
Well the only outdoor fill station around here are fill stations that only run in the summer. They are inside and usually in the back of the shop.
NetDoc:
About 20 minutes Pete.
During which I must "attend" the unit only for the last five or so, and for a few seconds every 15 minutes (to dump condensate) during longer runs (e.g. filling doubles.) I look at the gauge when I go to dump the condensate and from there know within a couple of minutes when I have to be out there to switch it to the next tank or shut it down.
The rest of the time its humming away and I am sitting in here on the net, watching TV, or cooking dinner. If I wanted to spend $400 or so I could put autodrains on it, and if/when I add bank tanks I almost certainly will.
Oh, for disclosures sake the numbers I am quoting are estimates from many many hours spent hanging out in shops. They just don't do many fills around here. I can't speak for other parts of the country.
Chad
Chad
ckharlan66:
Most of those "low volume" shops would be FAR ahead of the game to buy something like the Alkin and a few bank tanks, instead of a $15,000 compressor setup.
Unfortunately, they get the "big nutz" syndrome just like a lot of other people do in other areas, and suddenly the compressor salesman has an order for $20,000 (or more) worth of "stuff".
Then that shop-owner wants the diver to pay for their choice.
It is not my (or anyone else's) responsibility to cover a business's poor decisions. If you are only doing a half-dozen fills a day, there is no reason on God's Green Earth to own a 10cfm compressor system. None whatsoever.
There are smaller units that can fill banks, and at least one I know of that is in a vertical enclosure with pressure control (e.g. autostart/shutdown) and autodrains. No, a Bauer Junior or the little Max-Air won't (at least not without melting down.) You have to do your research - but that's true of most things if you want to buy smart.
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