Lessons to be learned-Death in Palau

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Aside from clipping myself off like a stage....

Maybe THAT'S what us non-scootering types can use that front crotchstrap D-ring for.... Now I got it.


k



PS: nice whistling shark.
 
I have to take issue with some of the comments on this thread to the effect that the victim is the only one to blame because she needs to be responsible for herself. This BS is spouted by negligent people all the time to take the spotlight off themselves and deflect it onto the victim.

Think it through. Everybody, on all sides of the accident has to be responsible. It's not only the obligation of the diver.

The Diver The diver has to be responsible for what? For herself, for her gear, her training, her knowledge of her comfort level. Lot's more too, that we can set to one side for purposes of this discussion.


The Dive Operator The Dive Operator has responsibilities too. The Operator knows the site. The Operator knows much more about any unusual conditions that will be encountered than any of the divers. Here, the Operator knew that there would be ripping currents. The Operator knew that not one of the 17 divers had ever tried this "reef hooking" stunt before. If you have superior knowledge about some danger that your customers are going to encounter, and you know that your customers don't have experience dealing with that danger, you have some responsibility to deal with that issue. That responsibility may be more than drawing a diagram and handing out reef hooks. It may include not letting some or all of the divers go on the dive.

The Instructor/Scuba Training Agency I have to wonder about the instruction this victim received, particularly if she was relatively inexperienced. As Mike has pointed out, the industry sells this sport as being virtually risk-free. There's little emphasis on practicing dealing with panic and stress. And yes, it can be done. That's why the military and the airlines put people through nasty training and realistic simulators. I suspect that this woman never tried breathing without her mask since her OW certification dive. Few divers do. Just about nobody tells them they ought to. They're told the opposite - scuba diving is like bowling. Do what you want, however you want. It's all up to you. It's your "personal responsibility". This attitude of minimizing very real risks is an avoidance of responsibility for the industry when the inevitable happens and somebody dies because their training was inadequate.

This woman is solely responsible only if she knew that she was embarking on a difficult and challenging dive, that her skills were inadequate to do this dive, that the current was strong enough to rip her mask and fins off once she "hooked in," and that she could be in a high-stress panic situation without a nearby buddy. If she went ahead knowing all the risks and accepting them, then she (or her estate) has no basis to complain. But if she didn't know what she was letting herself in for, then the people who did know, and had a duty to tell her, and didn't tell her, have to bear their share of the responsibility

Theoperator and the training agency must take some "personal responsibility" for the products they are selling.
 
I don't see any agency responsibility here. The "reef hooking" BS is totally non-standard technique, apparently made up by the operators in this area. Its much like blaming the agency if the woman had tried a U-boat penetration with an o/w card, its simply outside the scope of recreational training.

I do see the operator at fault for reasons previously mentioned and also for putting divers in a situation where rescue/assistance was unlikely or impossible once a problem occured. NO DIVER, including their DMs, can swim against a current that is strong enough to strip gear.

WW
 
O-ring once bubbled...
...and using the BS reef hooking practice instead of being able to hold one's stops with no reference point in current - i.e. drift deco/safety stop.
By no means defending the practice, just explaining it (two more pages to go, I'm probably just repeating what someone else has already said).

The idea behind hooking the reef is to get you to stay put in a whipping current where there's stuff to see, it's not being used as a deco stop or safety stop.

Roak
 
This lady had several times to abort the dive..before getting in the water or on descent when the conditions were obvious.

I think the dive operator made it very clear what the conditions of the dive were going to be.

I think she F'ed up! She was soo desperate to get out of that situation that she tried taking her BC off at 40'. Chances are she was going to let it go and end up at the surface..probably in better condition than she did end up.

She panicked and acted in a manner that killed her. If she had a problem with the dive or any procedures than SHE should of said something to the DM so he could clarify it....if she didn't get an answer she liked than she could of aborted. It was taught to me in OW that it is ok to ABORT a dive for whatever reason.

If I am going to put blame on anyone else, I will point at her hubby. Where in the hell was he to help her...isn't that what buddies are for?
 
This brings the discussion to "Waviers". I am sure the unfortunate diver signed one. It is automatic if you want to dive anywhere.

From what I have read about lawsuits that involve a legally binding wavier, there is still a chance that someone will pay someone money.

WJL is correct in stating that the Agencies and Operators should take part of the responsibility too. But, signing that wavier indicates to the operators and the training agencies that you are fully aware that what you are about to engage in could cause your death.

Again, all the bases were probably not covered by all the humans that were responsible. If we were to cover every possible situation at every instant in time "Waivers" would probably not be required.
 
jepuskar once bubbled...
I will point at her hubby. Where in the hell was he to help her...isn't that what buddies are for?

Exactly. He didn't even have a clue that something was wrong. Anybody want a buddy like that?
 
Waiver.


BILLB once bubbled...
This brings the discussion to "Waviers". I am sure the unfortunate diver signed one. It is automatic if you want to dive anywhere.

From what I have read about lawsuits that involve a legally binding wavier, there is still a chance that someone will pay someone money.

WJL is correct in stating that the Agencies and Operators should take part of the responsibility too. But, signing that wavier indicates to the operators and the training agencies that you are fully aware that what you are about to engage in could cause your death.

Again, all the bases were probably not covered by all the humans that were responsible. If we were to cover every possible situation at every instant in time "Waivers" would probably not be required.
 
Jep,

We're both proceeding on imperfect knowledge of the facts. You're assuming she knew everything there was to know about the dangers of the dive, and went ahead anyways. I doubt that is the case, but I have to admit Idon't really know. But, I have serious doubts that she knew as much about what she was getting into as the operator did. You don't know what you don't know. If no one tells you that the next dive is going to be hairy, you don't know that you should even be concerned, let alone that there might be some issues that need to be discussed. That to me is the critical point. The operator knew that this was not a simple, easy dive. She probably didn't.
 
I don't know whether a waiver would protect the potential defendants or not. I'm not really thinking about this from the perspective of who would win a lawsuit. My harping on responsibility for this senseless death is strictly from my feelings about what is reasonable and fair. I just have this idiotic hope that maybe somebody will try to learn something important from this poor person's death.
 
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