how is a simulatorNOT and i say not simulation going to change everything..you want to get into a machine and let the machine teach us thats absurd..and by the way on my ow test i had my mask ripped off my face at 40 feet and believe it or not i didnt panic but many others would of and thats ok its natural to be scared..you can have the mask taken off your face in the pool 500 times it doesnt prepare you if it happens on a dive..in the pool you know that your not in danger but in the open water its different..the fear factor always comes into play under water when something happens that you dont expect...this poor woman had 100 plus dive and no dive prepared her for what happened that led to her death..
Lessons to be learned-Death in Palau
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Most of the problems divers have are not problems at all. It is the divers perception of the situation and their incorrect reaction that is the problem and that's what gets them hurt.
Practice in solving problems provides the knowledge of...how to handle it...that you can handle it...changes the perception of PROBLEM to just a little something that needs to be taken care of.
As a simple example losing your mask...you don't need a mask to breath. being without a mask can't hurt you. However it can be uncomfortable. The water might be cold or you might not like not being able to see well. You may even get some water in your nose. Ever see a student diver get some water in their nose and quickly lift their head out of the water. Water in your nose can not hurt you. However rushing to the surface because you have water in your nose CAN hurt you and endanger your buddy when you leave them. With practice you develop the correct reaction to water in your nose (blow it out).
I have seen divers get hurt when they have a reg free flow and they panick and do a rapid ascent. The free flow didn't hurt them. They were so upset by the free flow that they decided to hurt themselfe. I have see divers become out of breath (whether from overexertion or CO2) and panick when what they should do is stop and rest. These divers weren't able to hold off that fight or flight response. Instead of addressing the issue they decided they just wanted to go home. More (better) traing would have avoided these situations all together or at least made them EASY to manage.
As land dwelling mamals none of our natural instincts are any good to us when diving. We need to learn new behaviors and instincts. It's done by developing good basic skills and practicing for the problems that we can anticipate. Doing so enables you to use those skills to solve new problems as they come up or just flat out avoid them.
Practice in solving problems provides the knowledge of...how to handle it...that you can handle it...changes the perception of PROBLEM to just a little something that needs to be taken care of.
As a simple example losing your mask...you don't need a mask to breath. being without a mask can't hurt you. However it can be uncomfortable. The water might be cold or you might not like not being able to see well. You may even get some water in your nose. Ever see a student diver get some water in their nose and quickly lift their head out of the water. Water in your nose can not hurt you. However rushing to the surface because you have water in your nose CAN hurt you and endanger your buddy when you leave them. With practice you develop the correct reaction to water in your nose (blow it out).
I have seen divers get hurt when they have a reg free flow and they panick and do a rapid ascent. The free flow didn't hurt them. They were so upset by the free flow that they decided to hurt themselfe. I have see divers become out of breath (whether from overexertion or CO2) and panick when what they should do is stop and rest. These divers weren't able to hold off that fight or flight response. Instead of addressing the issue they decided they just wanted to go home. More (better) traing would have avoided these situations all together or at least made them EASY to manage.
As land dwelling mamals none of our natural instincts are any good to us when diving. We need to learn new behaviors and instincts. It's done by developing good basic skills and practicing for the problems that we can anticipate. Doing so enables you to use those skills to solve new problems as they come up or just flat out avoid them.
GearHead
Contributor
Words to dive by.
I believe GI3 is also a big believer that our natural instincts just don't work underwater, and almost always end up hurting us. The only way to get past that is good training and good, frequent practice. I'm paraphrasing, but it's basically what you're saying, Mike.
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You're giving 'Joe and JoAnn Average Diver" way too much credit. What percentage of divers do nothing but Caribbean vacation dives? what percentage of these dives ARE "Trust Me" dives, a bunch of barely trained people following the DM around like little ducks, fully trusting him to fix any issues that might occur?
When one goes diving in a remote location one damn well better have it together or one may very well die if the feces hits the fan.
Did the description of the medical care shock some of you? Reality is that for Third World it was pretty good. Do you really think you'll get first rate medical care in a hospital in your average third world country? Don't bet on it.
The lesson here is don't do stupid things underwater, even if "the Scuba gods" do tell you it'll be ok.
WW
Tim Ingersoll
Contributor
Not for nothing but I am not sure how you can train for losing your mask in a ripping current and having water up your nose without actually diving in a ripping current, losing your mask and having water go up your nose. I have 98 dives and have dove current before but current that strong would intimidate the s**t out of me. I could easily see myself in her shoes in a matter of seconds. Once that first rip of salt water hits your lungs its all over.
Depth Gauge
Contributor
I think the reality is we REALLY don't know exactly what was said at the DB before the dive. All these doubts as to prudent information not having been provided by the DM isn't based on truth. It is an UNKOWN. Personally I've seen lot's of nervous new divers wanting to be seasoned and going AGAINST cautious DM's. While I was not present on that trip and don't know that crew at all, my experience on a Peter Hughes trip was nothing even close to a "Trust me" DB. They were VERY upfront about dangerous conditions and encouraged people NOT to dive if they felt uncomfortable. In the end, it's really hard for me to end up on one side of the fence or the other since I don't have ALL the facts. My heart goes out to her husband and family.
Jason
Jason
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Both Tim and Jason are correct here.
Tim is correct in that current that strong, strong enough to strip gear, is, at best, safely divable only by drift, certainly not with this idiotic "reef hooking" trick. Any current strong enough to strip gear will push a Gavin backwards, NO diver can swim against it.
Jason is correct in that we don't know what was said, either to the group or to this Lady specifically, before the dive. In a way though, that's a moot point because the one thing that we do know was NOT said was "sorry folks, conditions are too snotty, we're calling the dive for safety reasons".
WW
Tim is correct in that current that strong, strong enough to strip gear, is, at best, safely divable only by drift, certainly not with this idiotic "reef hooking" trick. Any current strong enough to strip gear will push a Gavin backwards, NO diver can swim against it.
Jason is correct in that we don't know what was said, either to the group or to this Lady specifically, before the dive. In a way though, that's a moot point because the one thing that we do know was NOT said was "sorry folks, conditions are too snotty, we're calling the dive for safety reasons".
WW
Luftgespinst
Guest
I think the real point is the bump on the head. She was obviously reacting to a bad situation the way that she had been taught. She had come to the conclusion that it was time to leave and was in the process of doing it. Not well but she was trying to leave. Evidence the droped weights and the partially removed bc. So why did she quit? The bump on the head? Had she finished removing the bc she would in all likelihood been a little shaken but ok, or maybe a little bent. The bump, I suspect, interupted her leaving, possibly, or probably, knocking her unconsious.
There are three points that come to my mind. Where was the buddy? Going after the fin or missed the hook? Two, OW teaches divers how to breath underwater with little or no skill. Drop the weights is not the best idea. But she was reacting the way that she was taught. And three, how will I react if ever faced with a hookin and watch dive?
There are three points that come to my mind. Where was the buddy? Going after the fin or missed the hook? Two, OW teaches divers how to breath underwater with little or no skill. Drop the weights is not the best idea. But she was reacting the way that she was taught. And three, how will I react if ever faced with a hookin and watch dive?
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
I give the weekend warriors absolutely NO CREDIT. They should ONLY do dives that they are fully trained for. They should never ever rely on a DM and only on an instructor when pre-arranged for instructional purposes.
Some "Trust Me" dives to watch out for...
Wreck or cave penetration... even many swim throughs.
Using NitrOx you did not analyse.
Deep dives YOU did not thoroughly plan.
High current dives.
Medium current wreck dives without a downline.
Trying to use new equipment in OW first (pools are much better).
"Free-form" deco diving.
Following your buddy's dive computer or letting them "do" the tables for you.
I could go on... but these seem to be the "Trust Me" dives that I see the most often.
Some "Trust Me" dives to watch out for...
Wreck or cave penetration... even many swim throughs.
Using NitrOx you did not analyse.
Deep dives YOU did not thoroughly plan.
High current dives.
Medium current wreck dives without a downline.
Trying to use new equipment in OW first (pools are much better).
"Free-form" deco diving.
Following your buddy's dive computer or letting them "do" the tables for you.
I could go on... but these seem to be the "Trust Me" dives that I see the most often.
So you might concider teaming up with someone who has experience in those conditions. You may even decide to skip the dive. Of course if you can't handle losing a mask and having water up your nose without current your chances in the current aren't very good.
I dove Jackson Blue a couple of weeks ago. You talk about a ripping current (flow) oh...man! Anyway I ended up in a spot, plastered up against a rock and the current seemed too strong to be able to go anywhere. I signalled the team member ahead of me with my light and then signalled "hold". I thought I would catch my breath and think about what to do next. When I began to look around to plan a rout onward I looked to my left and the flow immediately pulled my mask away from my face and twisted it around the side of my face. To say I got some water in my nose may be an understatement. I inwardly laughed at having made such a silly move and having gotten into such a silly situation and replaced and cleared my mask without giving it much thought. I studied the cave features for a moment and spotted what looked like a good rout. Gave a quick glance at my SPG, signalled ok with my light and the team moved on to have one of the funnest dives we have ever had.
Have I trained specifically for this. Well, yes. did I do that training in the exact same conditions no. Having all the little pieces squared away is what enables us to apply our skills to new situations with comfort and confidence.
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