Lion Hunting in Africa vs Cozumel

[cvchief]

... like people who thought acid washed jeans were cool.

Wait, those are bad too now?

 

[tomfcrist]

So you believe that grouper are passing genetic rewiring down generation by generation? I think you're taking quite a leap with grouper, genetics and biology there. To say that some populations of grouper are being born with an instinct thought process to associate divers with food puts you in a minority, or you know something that marine biologists don't. I'd be interested in any scientific evidence of that theory.

I would be interested in how you are thinking that I ever implied that the grouper have genetically evolved. I never even remotely said that. I did say their behavior has been modified...they learn that through their social structure....ie: monkey see monkey do. They see their peers aren't bothered by divers and actually approach divers and there is no threat....they do the same thing.

It's kinda like pissing on the sidewalk....I have been to countries where it is perfectly normal to take a **** in the middle of a parking lot....that is learned behavior....not genetic recoding.

 

[El Graduado]

Now I have to ask why next time I am there. I told the missus, she finds it an UNACCEPTABLE mix of English and Spanish!

Never noticed before.

More than 30 years ago, I designed Beto's first logo for his restaurant La Mission (there was only one location then; between Calles 10 and 15 on the south side of Juarez). La Mission was only open in the evening, starting around 6PM. Beto's tag-line at the bottom of the ad was "Tacos 'n' Chilis, Onions 'n' Beans." He thought that one up, not me! I can remember discussing the spelling of the name "Mission/Mision" with him when I began sketching out the logo. Though my memory is cloudy, I think he said he wanted to spell it the English way, as the ad we were inserting it in was also in English. I guess it worked, because it has always been spelled that way in all his other restaurants ever since.


Some of the other restaurants around at that time (see how many you remember):


Pepe's Place BBQ
O Sole Mio
Karen's Pizza Place
Green Submarine Deli
El Portal
Bavaria German Restaurant
Las Tortugas (the old place is now a parking lot on Av 10 between Juarez ad Calle 2)
Pepe's Plaza (on 5th Av behind Los Alemanes' old building on the square)
Acuario
Soberanis
La Langosta
El Faro Oyster Bar
Mini Lenny
El Tapatio
Morgan's
Grip's
Europa
Pancho Burger
Bagdad
Tortas Moros

In those days:
It was 7.50 USD from the plaza to San Francisco Beach by taxi.
All our phone numbers had only five digits.
You could rent a three bedroom house ON THE MALECON for 50 USD per night.
On Sundays Primo fried fish at the Celarain lighthouse.
You could swim in Chankanaab Lagoon.
The beaches on the east side were full of tar, not seaweed.
The passenger ferry cost 1.00 (one!) USD one way to Playa and took about an hour and a half.
The car ferry went to Puerto Morelos and took between 4 to 6 hours.
We had a hydrofoil that ran daily from the pier downtown to Cancun. Trip took 1 hour and cost 16.00 USD one way.
The discos were Scaramouche, Grips, Moby Dick, Joman's, and Hipopotamo.
We only had 13 dive shops on the island.
A lobster dinner cost 6.00 (six!) USD.
Two tank dives on Palancar were 30.00 USD and included a big lunch on the beach.
You could fly to Playa on Aerocozumel for 8.00 USD one way.
You could fly from Cozumel to Cancun for 18.00 USD one way.
A 7-night stay and six days of diving cost 322.00USD.

PLUG... PLUG... PLUG for more tidbits about old Cozumel get a copy of The True History of Cozumel from Amazon Books.

 

[DandyDon]

So why was the east side loaded with tar, and why not nowadays.

Eh, half of these posts will get deleted for being off topic. :sad:

 

[El Graduado]

So why was the east side loaded with tar, and why not nowadays.

I imagine because the laws were much looser back then regarding ships pumping out their bilges at sea and oil tankers pumping out the residual sludge from their tanks at sea. I always carried a bottle of paint thinner in my Jeep back then to clean off my feet before I climbed back in after a day on the east side. You used to find lumps of coal on the beach fairly frequently as well, but that hardly ever happens anymore.

 

[mmmbelows]

I would be interested in how you are thinking that I ever implied that the grouper have genetically evolved.

Because you said

Those grouper have learned over generations of interaction that divers equal free food.

A grouper doesn't survive for "generations" it lives one lifetime, if it's learning something over generations then it's being passed between generations genetically.From your clarification groupers aren't learning over generations, what you mean is groupers are simply watch other groupers being fed by divers and that knowledge dies with them.That being, I guess it's logical not to be so concerned since Dave stopped feeding groupers long ago all the ones who learned to associate divers with feeding are now long dead so there is no long lasting harm done.

 

[mstevens]

More than 30 years ago, I designed Beto's first logo for his restaurant La Mission

I'm shocked, I tell ya, that you'd have some sort of historical insight to offer on such a fine point of Cozumel history.

Honestly, though, it did give me the giggles to learn that you were personally there when the mission began.

 

[ggunn]

Some of the other restaurants around at that time (see how many you remember):

El Portal yep
Acuario big yep
Soberanis yep, stayed there in '87 or so
La Langosta yep
El Tapatio yep
Morgan's oh yep

and...
Santiago's
Capi Navigante
La Morena
Cabanas de Caribe
Los Gavillanos
Cafe Azul
La Veranda


In those days:

You could rent a three bedroom house ON THE MALECON for 50 USD per night. And a room in La Perla (now Blue Angel) was US$25/night.

You could swim in Chankanaab Lagoon. Been there, done that. What was that restaurant there where you picked out your fish to eat from the tank?

The discos were Scaramouche, Grips, Moby Dick, Joman's, and Hipopotamo. Many a drunken night at Scaramouche. Neptuno, too.

Two tank dives on Palancar were 30.00 USD and included a big lunch on the beach. Didn't dive then but on fishing trips we did the "Robinson Crusoe" lunch where deck hands would snorkel for conch and lobster on Palancar.

When you went down to the Presidente, you were in the sticks.

The turtle steak was the best meal on the island.

Playa Bonita was The Naked Turtle.

No one stopped at El Mirador.

There was a real operating lighthouse at Punta Langosta.

I fell in love with Cozumel in 1978.

 

[tomfcrist]

A grouper doesn't survive for "generations" it lives one lifetime, if it's learning something over generations then it's being passed between generations genetically.From your clarification groupers aren't learning over generations, what you mean is groupers are simply watch other groupers being fed by divers and that knowledge dies with them.That being, I guess it's logical not to be so concerned since Dave stopped feeding groupers long ago all the ones who learned to associate divers with feeding are now long dead so there is no long lasting harm done.

I would venture to say that many of the nice big grouper that were being hand fed in the 70's down there are not currently alive....their offspring are though and their offspring as well.....if that doesn't equate to passing down of behavioral traits between generations, I don't know what does. Once again...they learned a behavior from somewhere. I bet that behavior didn't exist prior to the hand feeding fad from years ago.

 

[Skittl1321]

Because you saidA grouper doesn't survive for "generations" it lives one lifetime, if it's learning something over generations then it's being passed between generations genetically.

Not everything is passed genetically; many things are just handed down as learned information. When humans learned to build fire, they passed that down to the next generation- it isn't genetically encoded. So when groupers in certain areas learned humans will give them food and are friendly, they passed it down in the same way.