LK's Pattaya Bash or I am a diver not a hairdresser crack head :-)

[Arizona]

You have some valid points, but self promotion can be an issue when working in the community the board focuses on IMO. That would be my concern. It is not so much people working in the dive industry, but rather ones with specific interest that can be directly related to the section of the board being moderated. SB is above our local 'politics' and is refreshing for that reason. I like maintaining as much free speech as possible. This is meant respectively and not at any one person. I think the mod we have now is fine. Everything seems to have chilled and we are hopefully passing into a better period of time. Moderation should be minimal. Reporting an abusive post is something we can all do. The process is working although a little delayed in the past.

 

[limbo]

An independant local person/mod would be a good idea indeed but let's see and wait how the current form develops.

 

[Scubadoo360]

I am confused and dismayed by this tread

Ive got some background reading to do if i want to get my head around all this, but to be honest I dont think i can be arsed... I may be off topic but H8 for Pattaya diving seems rife so I just wanted to say to anyone reading this Ive got hundreds of Dives logged around the Pattaya islands some have being spectacular and some... in the words of Borat... not so much.... The PADI Openwater video says it best as cliché as it sounds ... "You WILL have dive experiences you wont like and buddies you dont care for etc" but thats not a reason to stop diving... same same but different with Pattaya diving in my eyes
If your around the area and like diving especially wrecks then do it and make the most of the experience.. on the right day I guarantee you will actually find yourself pleasantly surprised :cool3:

 

[funrecdiver]

As a "born again" diver in Pattaya, logging around 5-10 dives here 20 years ago here and around 14 recently, I agree that diving here can be quite good at times, and quite bad at times. I've recently had memorable dives on the HTMS Khram (slack water, good visibility) and Koh Rin (also good tidal conditions that day).

The main bone-to-pick I have with (some of the) dive centers here seems to echo one of LK's (Lord Khram's) Pattaya bones, is a type of "bait-and-switch" diving, where a dive center promises a certain dive (like a wreck dive, or outer islands dive), and then changes the program in the morning of the dive because of the various ages and skill levels of divers on the boat that day.

While I do feel for centers with a single dive boat, and understand the complexities of trying to take care of kids, snorkelers, open water students, advanced open water students, and experienced divers all on one program; the results seems pretty consistent - the deep wreck dives and/or better outer island coral dives are often canceled to accommodate the less experienced divers and kids.

In one recent day trip, I was promised a wreck dive (we specifically discussed it), and then was told "sorry" the next morning (after I paid !!!). This creates the awkward situation of either saying:

1. OK, not a problem, I'll go home. Call me when we are actually going to ......
2. OK, not a problem, I'll just waste 2,000 to 3,000 baht on something I don't really want to do....
3. OK, this is a problem guys. You are kinda "ripping me off".... because that is *not* what we discussed and scheduled! Don't be so greedy!

None of these are winning situations for customer-divers.

I think what should happen is that the dive shop should call, email or sms the diver(s) the night before (when they have full roster of divers) and then let them know their planned trip has changed and apologize the night before, versus in the morning right before the dive (and after taking the balance of payment). That way we could make other plans the night before and maybe sleep in late, or something like that. We might go out with another dive center, it should be up to us.

Maybe the problem is that I've not been diving much in 20 years and, with renewed interest in diving, I am finding that things have changed? Promises and plans have little meaning? Dive shops just think they can take our money and give us what they want to give us versus what we actually paid for? Change the plans after paying the balance (and with money in their hands)?

What I think we recreational divers want (and deserve) are dive shops that, with the exception of weather / current related issues, stick to what we agreed on and purchased the night before...... or at least have the courtesy to let us know the night before; and offer a full refund when they change agreed upon dive plans.

I have stopped diving with two shops in Thailand (one in Pattaya and one elsewhere) because of this issue (not to mention the unmanaged children on one Pattaya day trip, sounding off their new ear-splitting high pressure emergency noise maker, whilst their instructor was nursing a hangover on the back of the boat.) I simply want to pay for agreed upon good dives, dive good dives, and not just be giving money to dive shops while I am semi-miserable on the trip, doing something I don't want to be doing and paying good money to be on a day trip I did not sign up for.

Sigh...

The more experience I have in Pattaya, the more inclined I am to see LK's point of view, I'm sad to concur. The problem is less the dive sites in the Pattaya area, it's more of how dive centers try to optimize their profits and take our money as if it does not really matter if we get the dives we agreed to. This takes the fun out of diving, or at least has started to take the wind out of my sails. I am paying good money for day trips I don't want to be doing and only informed the morning before the dive after the cash has exchanged hands!

Maybe this is a world-wide issue? I don't know since I only dive topical waters in Thailand, and I'm not a great diver, just wanting to have fun and enjoy the sport.

 

[JonJonboo]

As someone whom has had the Thai trip experience I will say that " I felt it sucked" and when I posted this fact on Scubaboard those individuals that were responsible for my experience attacked my character with glee.
If I am not mistaken, SCUBABOARD is about divers sharing their experiences with others regardless if it is negative or positive. Koh Samui is a fluke and the grand instructor from Holland that reigns there is a egoistic prop. Koh Tao is full of operators from the UK and Europe that escape their hum drum lives there, these folks do slap each other on the back as they screw many divers out of a decent dive experience. And the grand fluke of Koh Samui wants a moderator on SCUBABOARD to protect their interest by deleting all negative post about Thailand dive operators. I say post on to all that wish to share any and all experiences.

 

[lord khram]

As someone whom has had the Thai trip experience I will say that " I felt it sucked" and when I posted this fact on Scubaboard those individuals that were responsible for my experience attacked my character with glee.
If I am not mistaken, SCUBABOARD is about divers sharing their experiences with others regardless if it is negative or positive. Koh Samui is a fluke and the grand instructor from Holland that reigns there is a egoistic prop. Koh Tao is full of operators from the UK and Europe that escape their hum drum lives there, these folks do slap each other on the back as they screw many divers out of a decent dive experience. And the grand fluke of Koh Samui wants a moderator on SCUBABOARD to protect their interest by deleting all negative post about Thailand dive operators. I say post on to all that wish to share any and all experiences.

I have been rounded on by dive operators in thailand many times for speaking out about poor service, even those that are hundreds of miles away from where my complaints are concerned.
The fact of the matter is that I do not complain without good reason and I am glad to see it is not only myself that has noticed that these forums are used as a sales pitch and for mutual appreciation of dive proffesionals, and anyone that dares to speak about poor service is accused of causing trouble.
From what I see here jonjon it would appear that you dived in Koh Samui / Tao. Myself having dived all over Thailand over a long period I can only assure you, your experience would have been a whole lot worse and I dare say more expensive, had you chosen to dive in Pattaya.

 

[JonJonboo]

I have been rounded on by dive operators in thailand many times for speaking out about poor service, even those that are hundreds of miles away from where my complaints are concerned.
The fact of the matter is that I do not complain without good reason and I am glad to see it is not only myself that has noticed that these forums are used as a sales pitch and for mutual appreciation of dive proffesionals, and anyone that dares to speak about poor service is accused of causing trouble.
From what I see here jonjon it would appear that you dived in Koh Samui / Tao. Myself having dived all over Thailand over a long period I can only assure you, your experience would have been a whole lot worse and I dare say more expensive, had you chosen to dive in Pattaya.

Don't let up on them Lord Khram, they got it coming !

 

[jamiemac]

As someone whom has had the Thai trip experience I will say that " I felt it sucked" and when I posted this fact on Scubaboard those individuals that were responsible for my experience attacked my character with glee.
If I am not mistaken, SCUBABOARD is about divers sharing their experiences with others regardless if it is negative or positive. Koh Samui is a fluke and the grand instructor from Holland that reigns there is a egoistic prop. Koh Tao is full of operators from the UK and Europe that escape their hum drum lives there, these folks do slap each other on the back as they screw many divers out of a decent dive experience. And the grand fluke of Koh Samui wants a moderator on SCUBABOARD to protect their interest by deleting all negative post about Thailand dive operators. I say post on to all that wish to share any and all experiences.

What a cheerful little soul!

As one who escaped my hum drum life in the Uk in 1988, and have run dive operations in Thailand, notably Samui/Tao ever since, I've seen my share of un-happy divers for sure.

But a lot more happy ones, you can't please all the people all the time, , especially people who seem to enjoy a good moan. Don't get me wrong, those that know me call me a whinger, but I'm not so blinkered to put everybody in the same boat when i have a go

Just as well some of us have the courage to leave home, gamble everything and set up dive operations a long way from home, or otherwise you wouldn't get a dive at all, good or bad.

Perhaps if it's all so easy and we're a load of useless crooks, you should have a go, should be doddle for you.

Up for it?

 

[lord khram]

As a "born again" diver in Pattaya, logging around 5-10 dives here 20 years ago here and around 14 recently, I agree that diving here can be quite good at times, and quite bad at times. I've recently had memorable dives on the HTMS Khram (slack water, good visibility) and Koh Rin (also good tidal conditions that day).

The main bone-to-pick I have with (some of the) dive centers here seems to echo one of LK's (Lord Khram's) Pattaya bones, is a type of "bait-and-switch" diving, where a dive center promises a certain dive (like a wreck dive, or outer islands dive), and then changes the program in the morning of the dive because of the various ages and skill levels of divers on the boat that day.

While I do feel for centers with a single dive boat, and understand the complexities of trying to take care of kids, snorkelers, open water students, advanced open water students, and experienced divers all on one program; the results seems pretty consistent - the deep wreck dives and/or better outer island coral dives are often canceled to accommodate the less experienced divers and kids.

In one recent day trip, I was promised a wreck dive (we specifically discussed it), and then was told "sorry" the next morning (after I paid !!!). This creates the awkward situation of either saying:

1. OK, not a problem, I'll go home. Call me when we are actually going to ......
2. OK, not a problem, I'll just waste 2,000 to 3,000 baht on something I don't really want to do....
3. OK, this is a problem guys. You are kinda "ripping me off".... because that is *not* what we discussed and scheduled! Don't be so greedy!

None of these are winning situations for customer-divers.

I think what should happen is that the dive shop should call, email or sms the diver(s) the night before (when they have full roster of divers) and then let them know their planned trip has changed and apologize the night before, versus in the morning right before the dive (and after taking the balance of payment). That way we could make other plans the night before and maybe sleep in late, or something like that. We might go out with another dive center, it should be up to us.

Maybe the problem is that I've not been diving much in 20 years and, with renewed interest in diving, I am finding that things have changed? Promises and plans have little meaning? Dive shops just think they can take our money and give us what they want to give us versus what we actually paid for? Change the plans after paying the balance (and with money in their hands)?

What I think we recreational divers want (and deserve) are dive shops that, with the exception of weather / current related issues, stick to what we agreed on and purchased the night before...... or at least have the courtesy to let us know the night before; and offer a full refund when they change agreed upon dive plans.

I have stopped diving with two shops in Thailand (one in Pattaya and one elsewhere) because of this issue (not to mention the unmanaged children on one Pattaya day trip, sounding off their new ear-splitting high pressure emergency noise maker, whilst their instructor was nursing a hangover on the back of the boat.) I simply want to pay for agreed upon good dives, dive good dives, and not just be giving money to dive shops while I am semi-miserable on the trip, doing something I don't want to be doing and paying good money to be on a day trip I did not sign up for.

Sigh...

The more experience I have in Pattaya, the more inclined I am to see LK's point of view, I'm sad to concur. The problem is less the dive sites in the Pattaya area, it's more of how dive centers try to optimize their profits and take our money as if it does not really matter if we get the dives we agreed to. This takes the fun out of diving, or at least has started to take the wind out of my sails. I am paying good money for day trips I don't want to be doing and only informed the morning before the dive after the cash has exchanged hands!

Maybe this is a world-wide issue? I don't know since I only dive topical waters in Thailand, and I'm not a great diver, just wanting to have fun and enjoy the sport.

I am sorry to hear of your poor experiences, But am glad it is not only me that has made these type of observations and is prepared to speak out about it.
I have even had destinations changed after the boat has set sail, really leaving the customer with no option to do dives that they dont want to do. But I am not going over all that again, my thoughts on Pattaya dive shops are already well documented on these forums. Maybe you will find the same responces as myself in the past when I have made such statements about my experiences, dive professionals from hundreds of miles away have told me numerous times 'it didnt really happen like that'.

 

[The Wolf]

Dive companies at the end of the day have an obligation not only to paying customers, but also to senior divers to keep their word. A promised and agreed dive doesn't mean a change the next day because of the mix of divers heading out that day....if the company can't cope, they shouldn't be running these dives then.

Its just unfair on divers who do fly in and are on limited times and budgets.

Reputations are built/burnt by things like this....regardless if its phuket, or anywhere else in the world.