Local dive shops are really taking the pi$$!

[OneBrightGator]

Freeflyer once bubbled...
But if Apeks didn't want Leisurepro selling their stuff, then it wouldn't be hard to stop them.

True enough.

LP must be one of the biggest dealers for Apeks worldwide, they can't be getting that much stuff through 'dodgy' channels. If I buy a reg from LP it will come in the same packaging, be the same model as if I buy it down the road at the LDS.

All the manufacturers are giving their tacit approval to the online retailers by doing nothing. Personally I don't see why they just don't go the whole way and 'officially' endorse these retailers. If someone's going to buy from an LDS they'll go there. I honestly don't see the warranty being the big issue.

If they approve online sales and make LP an authorized dealer do you feel LP will then raise prices per current dealer agreements? Or/and will AL and SP to name two lower thier MRRP?

Obviously things are changing and other things will have to be changed, but I don't know how or what changes to make.

Ben

 

[Genesis]

Obviously things are changing and other things will have to be changed, but I don't know how or what changes to make.

The solution is simple, really.

Drop the price restraints (which are a dodge on a technicality around the law that is SUPPOSED to prevent what is being done) and instead go to a "MAP" pricing system (minimum advertised price), which is both unquestionably legal and does not restrain trade.

The mail order houses will remain cheaper than the LDSs. But that's ok. The LDS who wants to compete on a "mail order" basis can do so, and can probably even OUTCOMPETE LP if they truly can muster better service before and after the sale.

The manufacturers know full well how and where LP is getting their gear. They simply don't give a damn - and the LDSs are too stupid to realize that they're being outplayed.

LP has more annual sales volume than most MANUFACTURERS.

Were the manufacturers to shut LP down, several of them, including some BIG names, would go out of business within months.

It would not take many LDSs to band together to insist on the removal of the shackles that prevent them from competing with LP.

Of course they'd have to exhibit one iota of customer focus, which few of them do.

 

[DeepScuba]

Heheheh

My thoughts exactly Genesis


You got it FF.
LP buys from the Mfg's, period.

When you can see tonsils form the end it's stuck in, you know you're in far enough. I feel the Mfg's are giving the smaller LDS the short stick, and yet they take it anyways.

Pretty soon, air fill are gonna have to be $300.00 a fill for them to make a buck.

 

[redacted]

Dropping retail price restraints probably not enough. That put it all on the shoulder of the LDS. Some rearraingment of the wholesale price structure will also be necessary so the small LDS isn't paying more for the rig, wholesale, than LP and large outlets can sell retail. Either that or let training, gas, & service go back to a NP club system.

 

[MikeFerrara]

At this point there's only one thing that I know and that is from here out I'll only support the very few manufacturers who supported me when I had the shop (or would have)

I'll deal with Zeagle, Abyss, Oxycheck, Halcyon and a very few others. Even though Halcyon enforces their rules at least the rules seem the same for every one.

I'd quit diving before I used a SP, AL or Cressi product (there's others). I won't buy anything that I can't get parts for. I won't buy anything if working on it myself voids the warrentee.

And there isn't anything that I need from the shops that they want to force me into either. It might sound funny that I don't want to support the shops since I was one but untill they get a clue...and quit cranking out students who can't dive so they can give away classes in order to peddle junk for the manufacturers.

Now I'm only one person but..then there's my students. Oh, and my freinds don't need a dive shop either.

And then there's tha agencies who permit shops to teach classes that meet standards in a token way only. I've said it before, it's no accident that things are arranged the way they are given that the co-founder of PADI was VP for AL for all those years. Ya think?

So there you have it. If you have a compressor and your the only one for over a hundred miles in any direction that knows how to squirt helium into a tank anyway...Who else do you need? LOL

 

[DeepScuba]

Just a boat with a captain.

(I have my own Helium and Oxygen )

 

[MikeFerrara]

DeepScuba once bubbled...
Just a boat with a captain.

(I have my own Helium and Oxygen )

I don't own a boat but...I have better and more reasonably priced access to the Great Lakes than I could get through any dive shop. Even at that, though, I don't need a boat for the caves.

 

[Genesis]

Dropping retail price restraints probably not enough. That put it all on the shoulder of the LDS. Some rearraingment of the wholesale price structure will also be necessary so the small LDS isn't paying more for the rig, wholesale, than LP and large outlets can sell retail. Either that or let training, gas, & service go back to a NP club system.

Well sure it does. That's where it belongs.

The current model is broken awap. But its broken BECAUSE the shops have been "encouraged" to cost-shift and play games. As Mike noted, do you think that Cronin was a AL hotshot is a coincidence? Or that there is at least one agency now promoting giving away ow classes while pushing sales? Gee, do 'ya think there's some cross-pollution (and maybe at least a bit of illegal tying) going on here?

Discounts from manufacturers should, realistically, be based on exactly one thing - volume. This comports with the law both in letter and intent. If dive shops can't compete with LP on that basis, they can band together into buying coops and get the order volume up that way.

I did it in another industry, and dive shops can do it too.

It does require actually thinking and being a businessperson, however, rather than expecting someone - in this case the diver - to simply bend over and give the LDS the contents of your wallet, while saying "Please, can you do that again? It didn't hurt too much last time...."

Personally, I don't go that way - so until the shops stop attempting it, I choose not to play.

(There is nothing wrong with instruction being independant, and fills/service/etc being done by clubs. What is a loose association of divers who buy a compressor? Formalizing it into a non-profit just changes its name...)

 

[Scubakevdm]

You know, I was just skimming through this thread and I have to tell you that something is going to happen soon with this. At least for us. I work for a LDS and I've got to tell you that we are really getting crushed by internet sales. I'm not sure how we will ever be able to compete with internet sales. It's true that we are restriced by the manufacturer as far as price is concerned, and I don't know how these folks that sell way below the manufacturers floor keep getting product to sell, but they do, and it doesn't appear that that's gonna change.
It seems to me, that the local dive shop is done for. I can't really blame the consumer a whole lot... dive gear is expensive. I guess even the days of being the showroom of the internet are over. Maybe I'll get a real job and fill tanks and repair regs part time in the garage.

 

[The Curly One]

The internet has changed the way everyone does business, some of it good, some of it not so good. The LDS deals in lower quantitys and should make a decent mark up on (decent, not double) their products, they should also try to market their service more. With internet buying and UPS delivery we can all buy and have items delivered very quickly at a low price. We do not have to drive all over town looking for the best price, we can surf the Nation or even world for that matter. That makes it very difficult for the small dive shop to be competitive and stay in business.
The old model of LDS was to have classes and fill tanks at almost cost just to get customers in to buy the more profitable items. Now maybe that should be changed where the air fills and classes actually are profitable. In fact I think that it should be changed.
One thing that many of you are not considering is the truly outrageous insurance premiums that many of us have to pay. My business is selling SCUBA compressors and insurance is terrible, the LDS probably has a large percentage of their money towards insurance also.
I have to compete with the lowest prices even if the competition is pure junk the customer still looks at the price the price of the junk. Money is one of the major factors in any purchase for all of us myself included. In the old way of business when you had a happy customer they told two or three of their friends, when you had a Unhappy customer they told 15 or 20 people. Now with the internet one happy customer may tell several hundred people but a pissed off customer will post it everywhere and tell everyone.
That really puts the LDS in a bad position, they have to compete with the internet prices and yet if they do not offer the service or price the customer expects and deserves then he is blasted on the forums. The LDS do not buy in the same quantitys that the online stores do so they may not be even making as much mark up even though their prices are much higher. Business is difficult now days and it has changed from how it was done years ago. Curly