Long-hose in the time of COVID-19

[tbone1004]

This policy change begs the question: Does the long hose have to be so long if one is in OW? Perhaps 40" long to cut risk of entanglement?

many divers, myself included, find the 7' hose easier to manage and more streamlined than the 40" hoses in the water, even when clipped off. No increase in entanglement risk with the longer hose if it's routed properly, and still restricts the ability to travel single file comfortably. I have no objection to 40" hoses, but I find that the 7' is easier for me to deal with.

She was effectively "freediving" so no harm in bolting back to the surface. I don't understand why you would not donate a regulator and hold her down. Maybe she thought you were trying to drown her. I would.



US cave divers are taught to take the primary ? Divers revert to their training.

US cave divers are taught to RECEIVE the primary, not to take it. BSAC to my knowledge is the only agency that TEACHES a diver to TAKE a regulator

 

[Compressor]

many divers, myself included, find the 7' hose easier to manage and more streamlined than the 40" hoses in the water, even when clipped off. No increase in entanglement risk with the longer hose if it's routed properly, and still restricts the ability to travel single file comfortably. I have no objection to 40" hoses, but I find that the 7' is easier for me to deal with.

I agree with you. After I posted this, I thought of how to route 7' of hose (which I use myself). Well, clip to right chest D-ring and tuck the hose into the right side waist webbing or BC band.

 

[Rickk]

The problem with saying that a diver reverts to their training is that it assumes that they were trained to begin with. They may have a c card but that does not actually mean that they were trained or trained properly or paid attention to their training.

If they really were following their training the OOA situations described here where a diver forgot to turn on her air would not have happened.

 

[CuzzA]

Scuba divers are general pretty smart accomplished folks. So, I have a question. What are the odds that you will be hanging out for the day and diving with someone while you actually caught the corona virus and during the asymptomatic period, that buddy runs out of gas and you have to give him your reg and consequently spread it to him or her at that moment.... versus you just dying because you're scuba diving?

IIRC, the odds of dying from a dive are 1 in 200k.

 

[tursiops]

The problem with saying that a diver reverts to their training is that it assumes that they were trained to begin with. They may have a c card but that does not actually mean that they were trained or trained properly or paid attention to their training.

If they really were following their training the OOA situations described here where a diver forgot to turn on her air would not have happened.

One common problem I see with equipment is a slowly-leaking inflator, so the divers gets more and more buoyant. VERY few remember what they learned in their pool sessions.....unplug the inflator hose. They did it once, early in their training, and it was never mentioned again.

 

[KenGordon]

She panicked at 30 ft. I was closest. I grabbed her because she was about to bolt to the surface. I did not donate a reg because I was busy keeping her at depth and fighting her from grabbing at my face for a reg

Did this really happen?

If a person jumps in with no gas at all what is the problem with bolting to the surface immediately? Will she get bent? No, she just got there and has no more N2 than a freediver. With she have a gas expansion injury? No, her gas was off so she cannot have been breathing compressed gas.

She wasn’t after your reg, she was trying to kill you in revenge for you killing her.

 

[KenGordon]

The problem with saying that a diver reverts to their training is that it assumes that they were trained to begin with. They may have a c card but that does not actually mean that they were trained or trained properly or paid attention to their training.

If they really were following their training the OOA situations described here where a diver forgot to turn on her air would not have happened.

The assertion that people revert to training is based on observation, it assumes nothing about behaviour. It does assume that the sample scales, which has two parts (at least) - that the incidents reported are representative of all incidents, and then in the SB context that British divers are generally representative of divers globally.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I am a bit tired of seeing the BSAC drum being beaten in so many threads. There "evidence" is based on a small sample size and IS NOT reflective of the rest of the world.

I'm no BSAC FanBoi I've been a member and I see both sides of their organisation - the good and bad.

But they are the only organisation, probably in the world, that has been able to collate incident statistics over many, many years.

@saxman242 over many threads keeps trying insist their stats are anecdotal (probably because of some insecurity between his views and thiers) but this is not the case.

Firstly because of the way all BSAC clubs operate, they have to report incidents (although its fair to argue that not all are

In the UK businesses (so Dive centres) have to by Law report certain level incidents to the Heath and Safety body. Fatalities are investigated by the coroners court and the findings are made public.

Because BSAC is a National organisation and has a formal recognised status. At a national level it liaises with emergency services and other dive organisations - a prime example of this was the "recent" rejection of changes to the timing of cylinder inspections which were part of a revision of the EN specifications

Thus they are able to get access to and collated data, for all UK diving, but also for overseas incidents with BSAC clubs/divers

They over the years have analysed the data and apply contribution factors to each incident (or which there are generally more than one) Form this they derive information which can then be used to modify and improve diving practices and training

You say they're not representative. That point has some value since the majority of their data come from cold water divers - which (according to the prevailing chest thumping SB pov) are more skilled than warm water divers

But their data set is way more complete than a few anecdotal SB POV which are generally biased to support their personal decisions and as we know, the SB divers are not representative of the diving population at all.

And most divers worldwide have neither heard of nor care about BP/w and long hose.

You and others may not agree with the way BSAC react to the data with regard to their own training standards and recommendation. That's not the fault of the data but because BSAC are generally more conservative with their prime rational of making diving safer and reducing fatalities.

But the originating data still stands and is a valuable resource. Most people here want to dismiss the data becuase it contridicts their personal point of view

 

[Diving Dubai]

The problem with saying that a diver reverts to their training is that it assumes that they were trained to begin with. They may have a c card but that does not actually mean that they were trained or trained properly or paid attention to their training.

If they really were following their training the OOA situations described here where a diver forgot to turn on her air would not have happened.

It's a valid point. I see it all the further education courses that the divers core skills are abysmal. It's easy to always blame the previous instruct but often this is not teh case

I've had students who've complete their OW a few months previous, have dived occasionally since then and been taught by an instructor I respect and who I know would have ensured their skills were mastered and repeatable. Yet their current skill level is shocking simply because they've neither practiced nor even bothered to retain what they were taught

Often on SB a new thread pops up in the AI forum, and i'ts obvious that teh whole incident started because the diver failed to carry out a basic equipment check, or decided to ignore the issue because they were desperate to dive.

I see this far too often.

Heck most divers forget the briefed dive plan as soon as their head goes underwater, mainly because their subconsciously task loaded with the basics of breathing and buoyancy

 

[KenGordon]

But their data set is way more complete than a few anecdotal SB POV which are generally biased to support their personal decisions and as we know, the SB divers are not representative of the diving population at all.

I think the SB data is actually worse than anecdotal data due to a tendency to conform to the local norms and repeating what is essentially folklore. For the whole bpw/long hose/primary donate vs conventional configurations it leads to all sorts of assertions I find very hard to believe, people claiming stuff to be well know which is actually quite controversial and so forth.

Back in the old days if a bloke told you a story in the pub it was likely no more than two or three people removed. With the internet it can be many generations removed and the same story can come by many different paths. This means one mundane incident can become many fantastical ones, all supporting each other. Even one “my instructor told me” can become much many ‘factual’ examples.