Looking to Buy a Rebreather

[grantctobin]

A lot of Kiss units are apparently sold with just the handset. That might be why @tbone1004 is pushing the Petrel 3 as a major safety improvement. I have a HUD as well as the handset on mine that’s on order. Don’t feel the absolute need for the haptic.

You have to be OCD to do the CCR stuff properly, as far as I’m concerned. I dive with a number of CCR divers now. I keep getting the question of when I’m going CCR, mainly due to the cost of helium. My answer is always nope! First thing when I get home from a day of diving is head for the bathtub for a long, relaxing hot bath. Having to take care of a CCR first? Nope. My gear (aside from drysuit and computers) can sit in the car for a few days after diving. I’ve had water in my wing freeze in the winter. You can’t do that with a CCR. I’ll deal with $4-5/cft for helium. OC is so much simper and low maintenance.

Would haptic feedback be a safety improvement for someone is not OCD?

 

[davehicks]

A lot of Kiss units are apparently sold with just the handset. That might be why @tbone1004 is pushing the Petrel 3 as a major safety improvement. I have a HUD as well as the handset on mine that’s on order. Don’t feel the absolute need for the haptic.

I bought a Petrel 3 EXT to use on my Kiss rebreather. I've been using the Pursuit, Predator, and Petrel 2 as my PPO2 display/computer for many years. I don't like a HUD. As a photographer, and a mCCR user I've felt that a HUD is more nuisance than benefit. A well trained mCCR diver is always checking their ppo2 and gets a feel for how and when it degrades or spikes. I've rarely had an issue where it drops lower than I'd like. Except on a few occasions with an ascent after an aborted decent (usually a buddy problem to deal with) or the occasional surface swim.

For that reason, I got a Petrel 3 with the haptic feedback. I've done a few dives with it since receiving it two weeks ago. The haptics work very well and you can customize several different events and thresholds for the vibration. The default ppo2 low warning is 0.4 and the high warning is 1.6. Long story short, it works very well. I like it a lot and consider this to be a nice upgrade. The return to an OLED screen is also nice for better visibility. The old Predator used OLED but the Petrel 1 & 2 used LCD. The Petrel 3 screen is a little larger as well so that's a plus. The Petrel 3 form factor and dimensions are identical to the Petrel 2, so my silicone cover still fits perfectly.

A nice feature upgrade would be to have a ppo2 warning for the 0-40ft range where 0.4 would be appropriate, and another for the 41+ range where maybe 0.9 might be a good trigger.

 

[grantctobin]

A nice feature upgrade would be to have a ppo2 warning for the 0-40ft range where 0.4 would be appropriate

What? Who taught you running an 0.4 on a CCR was ever a good idea?

 

[grantctobin]

A nice feature upgrade would be to have a ppo2 warning for the 0-40ft range where 0.4 would be appropriate, and another for the 41+ range where maybe 0.9 might be a good trigger.

“Hey guys, let’s add a great feature then give them an option to neuter it when the risks of hypoxia are the highest!”

 

[davehicks]

What? Who taught you running an 0.4 on a CCR was ever a good idea?

Dude, that is the default warning level Shearwater programmed as a warning of low ppo2, not an optimal one.

And for the record 0.4 is greater than any OC diver is breathing on Air/Nitrox in shallow water. In other words it is perfectly safe and life sustaining.

 

[tbone1004]

I would see the addition of a HUD as a MAJOR safety factor. Haptic feedback, MIGHT, end up being a safety factor, but I would take the HUD over a vibration on my wrist.

I would take haptics over a HUD any day of the week. I dive in far too many situations where a HUD is not visible. Hell, shallow water on a sunny day with my Meg is one of them....

I think I'm finally getting what you are trying to tell me. You are saying that even though Shearwater has announced they will offer the Petrel 3 with 4-pin connector, you are saying that they will not sell it to anyone except a CCR manufacturer.

You're saying that DGX and others will not be able to offer for sale the Petrel 3 with 4-pin direct to the consumer. Even though they offer the NERD2 in JJ, O2ptima, and generic DiveCAN versions, and you can buy the analog NERD2 with 4-pin connector (and 3 Molex connectors) from DGX as well (technically, a rEvo part, but anyone can buy it, as far as I know).

Shouldn't we expect rEvo to offer the Petrel 3 as an analog monitor with 4-pin connector, just like they offer the NERD2? So then you could buy it from DGX also?


If you're in a whiteout, can't see your Petrel 3 monitor, and you feel it buzz, what do you do? Dil flush?

If you're in a whiteout and can't see your non-Petrel 3 monitor, shouldn't you do the same thing?

Does having the haptic feedback make it okay, when you cannot see your monitor, to continue diving without doing a dil flush (presuming it has not buzzed)?

I'm unclear on why the haptic is a MAJOR safety improvement. If it was a MAJOR improvement in safety, it seems like Shearwater would have added it before now. It's not like the concept of having a vibrating alarm in your dive computer is new.

I am sure Revo will start offering it as an update to their current offering but DGX does not offer any of those configurations at the moment, you can only purchase those directly from Revo *KISS has their equivalent but that again must be purchased directly from KISS* and as I don't own either of those units, there isn't anything I can do about it.

I use Divesoft Freedoms now but if I can't see it and feel haptics go off I dil flush and go to SCR mode or bail out. Since I know I can feel and hear the haptics on my Freedoms I am comfortable going into 0-viz with them. If I had a HUD on my sidemount SCR and a Petrel 1 without haptics and went 0-viz I would instantly go to SCR mode, and I've been in plenty of situations where you can't see HUD's, as has @grantctobin which is why we are rather passionate about it.

It all depends on if they thought it was a priority or not. They have 4-pin cables which are a major safety improvement over Fischer cables but they continue to sell those.... They are a completely different company now than they were even 5 years ago, they are operating like a major corporation, that comes with benefits and comes with compromises. This is one of those compromises.

I agree with @stuartv - not too sure why I need haptic feedback w a HUD and a controller. Two displays are more than enough. However, I'd upgrade in a heartbeat if they let me vote out cells manually.

As much of an improvement as the haptics is and as much as I would prefer the 4-pin to the Freedom connector and having WAI again, the ability to manually vote cells out on the Freedom is huge for the types of diving I do. That's a simple firmware update but one that I don't know will ever happen.

 

[davehicks]

“Hey guys, let’s add a great feature then give them an option to neuter it when the risks of hypoxia are the highest!”

Snarky comments aside, you think a little more deeply about what you are attempting to make fun of.

 

[grantctobin]

Dude, that is the default warning level Shearwater programmed as a warning of low ppo2, not an optimal one.

And for the record 0.4 is greater than any OC diver is breathing on Air/Nitrox in shallow water. In other words it is perfectly safe and life sustaining.

To refer back to your earlier comment:

A nice feature upgrade would be to have a ppo2 warning for the 0-40ft range where 0.4 would be appropriate

(40/33+1)*0.21=?
(30/33+1)*0.21=?
(30/33+1)*0.32=?
(20/33+1)*0.32=?

Those are “Air/Nitrox in shallow water” PPO2 calculations, no?

You’re in the rebreather forum, advocating that limiting (or lowering) the minimum PO2 alert to trigger haptic feedback in an mCCR monitor when at shallow depths, would be a good idea. Please tell me you don’t run an 0.4 (and that’s ignoring your earlier comment about wanting to be able to run below a 0.4 when shallow, as your first post would indicate) at shallow depths in your mCCR.

 

[lermontov]

Dude, that is the default warning level Shearwater programmed as a warning of low ppo2, not an optimal one.

And for the record 0.4 is greater than any OC diver is breathing on Air/Nitrox in shallow water. In other words it is perfectly safe and life sustaining.

yes .4 is sustainable given no other contributing factors related to ccr diving (unlikely your using lean dil at that shallow depth) -but the clue that shearwater acknowledges .4 is a low po2 warning should be enough to exercise caution- do any ccr manufacturers or agency suggest .4 as a low set point setting?

 

[Doby45]

I would take haptics over a HUD any day of the week. I dive in far too many situations where a HUD is not visible. Hell, shallow water on a sunny day with my Meg is one of them....

You need a better HUD. I have zero issue seeing my Fathom HUD, be it full daylight or pressed against the glass of my mask in a silt out. I was in a complete silt out in rocky horror and the only thing I COULD see was my HUD. If you want something jiggly on your wrist, great, but don't make it out to be the most MAJOR safety feature introduced to a CCR.