Master Scuba Diver Vs Divemaster Or Both

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Lake Hickory Scuba

Contributor
Scuba Instructor
Messages
308
Reaction score
346
Location
Taylorsville, NC
# of dives
5000 - ∞
To all new divers out there who are considering taking continuing education courses, or those who have been wondering what the difference is between a Master Scuba Diver and a Divemaster, hopefully this video will help you out. Disclaimer, the standards discussed are from Scuba Schools International (SSI), but it is to be noted that just about all the major training agencies have similar training standards.

 
You were ok until you said NAUI standards are similar. The standards for Master Diver and Dive Master are not similar to SSI and PADI. A NAUI Master diver has taken a stand alone course that is actually Instructor level knowledge and skills without the teaching component.

As you know SEI Master Diver is essentially the same and does not require the diver to take a bunch of specialties to earn the rating.

Also a NAUI DM is higher than the NAUI Assistant Instructor Rating. Another key difference.

SEI and NAUI Master Divers actually have more theory and skills training than some Instructors from the larger agencies.
 
You were ok until you said NAUI standards are similar. The standards for Master Diver and Dive Master are not similar to SSI and PADI. A NAUI Master diver has taken a stand alone course that is actually Instructor level knowledge and skills without the teaching component.

As you know SEI Master Diver is essentially the same and does not require the diver to take a bunch of specialties to earn the rating.

Also a NAUI DM is higher than the NAUI Assistant Instructor Rating. Another key difference.

SEI and NAUI Master Divers actually have more theory and skills training than some Instructors from the larger agencies.

I totally agree with you Jim, especially with the SEI reference, it would be bad being a SEI Instructor Trainer if I flubbed the standards, just simply given a quick reference to newer divers on the primary differences between Master Scuba Diver and Divemaster. Basically telling them one is a professional certification requiring liability insurance and allows them to teach or assist with teaching and the other being a certification displaying their achievements. SSI and PADI being the 2 that we train the most of were referenced simply because they are the 2 largest in the industry and are more than likely what the majority of newer divers will take. But thank you for the correction in regards to NAUI.
 
Good video. I didn't know there was no charge for the SSI MSD. Also, as opposed to PADI, I very much like the idea that the specialties required for SSI MSD are good basic courses, as opposed to Underwater Basket Weaving. The discussion of NAUI MSD vs. PADI MSD has been discussed to death--IMO, neither is "better", they're just different. But hey, I have both PADI MSD & DM, so I'm King of the World......
 
Good video. I didn't know there was no charge for the SSI MSD. Also, as opposed to PADI, I very much like the idea that the specialties required for SSI MSD are good basic courses, as opposed to Underwater Basket Weaving. The discussion of NAUI MSD vs. PADI MSD has been discussed to death--IMO, neither is "better", they're just different. But hey, I have both PADI MSD & DM, so I'm King of the World......


I guess the individual store could charge for the processing the SSI Master Scuba Diver certification, but seeing how it is done in house at SSI, it would be hard to. Plus who doesn't like getting things for free. Last year, I certified several PADI and SSI Master Scuba Divers, or I should say cross overs, and SSI even allows up to 2 PADI (or other) Specialty Certifications to apply towards their Master Scuba Diver Certification. This way students get credit for already having multiple certifications, the same as when an instructor crosses over and gets credit for being able to teach certain specialties with his respected agency.
 
I enjoyed watching the video. One thing that wasn't mentioned that maybe you can clarify is what constitutes becoming a dive guide. At my LDS, an SSI shop, the IT (Instructor Trainer) says that becoming a Divemaster is not like taking a weekend class and doing say 4 dives but it is an internship that can take as much as a year to complete. At my LDS prospective clients become DMC's (Divemaster candidates). They usually go to a lot of pool sessions to watch over other divers and to attend training sessions. They go along with instructors for the OW classes and dives. Along the way they take Science of diving (SOD) as mentioned in the video. According to the IT most of the work is to become a dive guide. When you complete SOD you automatically become a Divemaster. Is this true for other LDS's and is the DM program an internship? My understanding is the internship varies in time according to the individual DMC's skills and ability to demonstrate the skills and learn the material.
 
From what I've read on SB, there are two types of DM courses. One is like the one I did at the shop. You fulfill all the different requirements as arranged by the instructor, yourself and other DMCs in the course. We did a lot of stuff on weekends since everyone but me had day jobs. The PADI requirement is (was anyway) that you shadow one OW course and one "continuing ed" course (like AOW, Rescue, etc.). That is what we did. Time to complete the course can be weeks, but usually months--especially considering the long winter weather.

The "internship" course seems to be more common in the tropics, from what I read. There you do the same requirements, except you spend a great deal more time shadowing courses. In doing this, you are also assisting with some of the aspects of the course (logistics, I gather?). I believe these courses almost always go on for months. Some places offer the course without a fee in exchange for labour of some sort--either assisting in some way as a DMC or for a time period after becoming a certified DM. At times I believe room and board may be included. The big discussion on SB is how long this "free" labour should last--ie., is it a good and fair deal for the DMC or is the op owner offering this for too long a "free labour" period--as a way to avoid paying certified DMs over the long haul?
 
Good video. I didn't know there was no charge for the SSI MSD. Also, as opposed to PADI, I very much like the idea that the specialties required for SSI MSD are good basic courses, as opposed to Underwater Basket Weaving. The discussion of NAUI MSD vs. PADI MSD has been discussed to death--IMO, neither is "better", they're just different.

As said in the video, for MSD you can substitute other specialties for the ones listed, for DM you cannot. So in SSI you can get a MSD with your example of say Underwater Basket Weaving.

Although I believe those courses should be mandatory for MSD, I switched out for Nitrox and Altitude since I've done a lot of night dives, and made more $ on S&R than all the courses cost. If it was mandatory they would have nicked me for one more class I did not apply for, or pay for, the PADI MSD as the instructor presented it to me as a surprise at one of the dive outings.

As for whether it made me a better diver, at least the instructor made me follow the rules and set a good example in class because of my seniority as a diver. Being a good example whilst on my own time was unnerving.


Bob
 
I enjoyed watching the video. One thing that wasn't mentioned that maybe you can clarify is what constitutes becoming a dive guide. At my LDS, an SSI shop, the IT (Instructor Trainer) says that becoming a Divemaster is not like taking a weekend class and doing say 4 dives but it is an internship that can take as much as a year to complete. At my LDS prospective clients become DMC's (Divemaster candidates). They usually go to a lot of pool sessions to watch over other divers and to attend training sessions. They go along with instructors for the OW classes and dives. Along the way they take Science of diving (SOD) as mentioned in the video. According to the IT most of the work is to become a dive guide. When you complete SOD you automatically become a Divemaster. Is this true for other LDS's and is the DM program an internship? My understanding is the internship varies in time according to the individual DMC's skills and ability to demonstrate the skills and learn the material.

EFX, in regards to your question, the DIVE GUIDE is the first part of the Divemaster certification. Each training agency has their own terminology in regards to what a Divemaster is. An example would be as follows: PADI- Divemaster, SSI-Divemaster, SEI/PDIC-Dive Supervisor, etc. They are all the same in regards to rank. Prior to 2010, the PADI Divemaster course consisted of Standards, Teaching, and Physics Training. SSI followed as well with Dive Guide, the teaching and standards portion, and then Science of Diving, the physics portion. Just as with PADI, SSI issues the Divemaster rating in house once a student has met the requirements as set forth by training standards. The instructor that teaches the course files the appropriate paperwork and then SSI reviews it. The biggest difference is SSI does not charge for the rating, but PADI does. As far as how long the training takes, is up to the student and shop he trains through. For the majority of the ones we teach SSI to, they go through an internship that can range from a month to a year. With PADI, we usually train the Divemasters in a few weeks time frame. Given credit to a person for being a fast learner is something a lot of shops neglect. In our area, a lot of our dive professionals are professionals in the real world, such as Police, Fire, EMS, School Teachers, etc., and have been diving for several years. With this being said, their ability to pick up on how to teach and conduct courses, and how to manage students comes naturally to them. Those tend to be very short courses. On the other side of the isle, the longer internships are useful in training someone for the administration side of working the store, or in the industry as a whole. Reason being that we focus more on the SSI is because we are a Diamond Facility, and SSI professionals have to be associated with an SSI Facility. With PADI they can be independent. So we explain to the candidates their options. We charge the same amount no matter which route they choose. As far as getting a job after certification, the ones that meet the needs of the company are hired. Lastly, in this business (The Scuba Industry), I have learned not to talk people out of what they want. Just because I would rather them do the SSI way of things, why would I refuse their money just because they are PADI-fied. In the end, a person has to meet the minimum standards set forth by the training agency. Whether it takes 2 weeks or a year, to me is not the problem. For instance, take a Fire and Technical Rescue Ropes Instructor, who teaches every day for a community college and has done so for 20 years. He wants to be a Divemaster for my store. Once he has taken the class room, passed the standards test, and met all practical requirements, why would I tell him he must work an internship with me for 6 months to learn how to manage and teach students. He makes a living hanging people off the face of a cliff, and among other things, now he is tasked with being an extra set of eyes for me under the water. I'm sure he knows how to manage people. Furthermore, all agencies promote fast Instructor courses in a 2 week time frame, which the Instructors holds more responsibility than the Divemaster does, but we seem to be putting more emphasis on the Divemaster course. I get that it is the first level of professional diving but with the evolution of training now days, people learn pretty darn fast if you allow them to and don't hold them back. Sorry, I seem to have gotten off on a rant in regards to how long it should take to become a Divemaster. I remember when I first became a Divemaster, my instructor brought me up all the way from Open Water, and I had worked the store I got certified in since I was 12 years old, not just filling tanks and sweeping the floor, but helping in the class, pool and open water. When I turned 18, it was as simple as signing paperwork and getting a card that said Divemaster. I would venture to say I had audited over 20 Divemaster courses, from start to finish, and even was allowed to teach classroom and pool sections right beside the lead instructor on Open Water and Specialty courses. That meant I did a 6 year internship with the Instructor. Now when my time came (age being the biggest obstacle), do you feel that I was qualified. I was a kid, but I knew that Divemaster course both inside and out. To this day I still look back at how much I learned, but I wonder how much easier it would have been if I was older, and could I have learned things quicker when I was more mature. The experience I got being right beside the Instructor while he was teaching and he letting me teach small classroom sections or demonstrating skills in the pool help build my confidence. But like I said I was 12. Some one who is much older may not have a confidence issue and may be a genius. I have trained doctors who during PADI's Emergency First Response Course, or SSI's React Right Course, who told me the slides and information was wrong. Who do you really think had more knowledge, me the simple CPR and First Aid Instructor, or a Doctor (The Doctor DUHHHHH). Now, moonlighting as an EMT Instructor for the State of North Carolina a few nights a week, I can usually hold my own in an argument a little bit better now with a Doctor. The point I am trying to make, and once again I apologize for throwing the thread I started way off course, is that some people can do what we call the zero to hero course in a short 1 to 2 week time frame based off other skills they have and what their background is. Others will definitely need the internship. I tell all students to interview their Instructor to see if he or she is best suited for them and to explain what your goals are. If a person is looking for a job, the internship is a good route to take, if they are just wanting the certification or they want the ability to work elsewhere than my shop, than they need to meet minimum standards and then they can earn the rating. I will end with this, one of the truest statements I have ever heard, came from one of my Rookie School Instructors (for the ones that don't know what Rookie School is, it is the Police Academy here in North Carolina). He told us that we would only learn just enough during class to get us hurt and sued. Once we graduated and got a job, we would learn so much more during the job. Boy was that the truth. Once I got sworn in as a Law Enforcement Officer, what little bit I learned during school was only a small fraction to what I learned on the streets. Ironically, most seem to think it should take longer to become a Divemaster than a Police Officer. Now for some perspective, my schooling was only 3 months long. Which do you think should be longer? No need to answer, just some food for thought.

I hope I didn't sound too arrogant on the topic, definitely not my intentions, just trying to clear up some things.
 
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