Misgivings / Question

[divermike1011]

Hi everyone, I recently started a DM course with a local PADI dive shop, and while I am very excited about taking the first step towards going pro, something that happened when I took the Rescue Diver course several weeks ago continues to bother me, and I thought I'd bring it up here to see if others have had similar experiences.

During the open water portion of the RD course we were on Oahu's north shore, and one of my fellow students needed a lot of assistance from both us (fellow students) and the instructor to not a, drift away in the current, and b, get in and out of the water. Now not everyone is comfortable in seven to eight foot swells, but this individual self admitted after the course that it was just too intense, and she preferred diving in only 'perfect' conditions. Which, I guess is fair enough, if nothing else she learned her limits on the dives. What bothers me is that she passed the course (she didn't meet the exam standards either) and that the CD was trying to not so subtly sell her the DMC course on the ride back from a dive she did not demonstrate comfort in the water. I am wondering, because I am pursing DM so that I can someday work as an instructor is: is this practice of passing students who pay the course fees common? I realize that the CD has to make a living, but it seems both bad for the student and bad for the company to send out divers who just aren't safe. Any thoughts?

Michael

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You are opening a big can of worms here with a question like this. Hope you are ready for some hard truths. Passing students who do not meet course standards should not be done but it is. Doing it in an effort to encourage a diver to continue to progress when it is clear they should not is not only against every agency's standards that I am aware of but unethical and possbily dangerous. You need to ask yourself if this is serious enough that allowing this to happen would jeopardize the safety of the diver themself and others they may be diving with.

In my opinion if this is the case and you plan to go the professional route you will at some point be required to report violations like this that you actually witness. The CD does have to make a living but not at the expense of student safety. This ione of the things that gives scuba a bad name. The instructor doing this is not a professional in any sense of the word if this is indeed the way he is teaching an selling classes. I'd seriously ask myself if this is who I'd want training me. What other shortcuts is he taking to put unqualified people in the water? Encouraging someone to become a DM after something like this is what gives the entire program a black eye. Is there someone you can go to about this? The shop owner, even the diver herself should be told that with her discomfort DM is not a wise path at this time.

Just reread and realized you have started the course. As a DM candidate you are obligated to report violations of standards. Not doing so is a violation in itself. The CD has put you in a messed up position and you need to let him know that and that unless he can give a good explanation for his actions you are obligated to report him.

 

[scubadiver888]

Michael,

I don't know how often this sort of thing happens but I am aware it happens. I know that people will talk about EVERY bad dive shop but only truly exceptional instructors will be mentioned. This makes it seem like there is a large number of bad dive shops. I'd like to believe that bad shops are rare and they just stand out because people like to talk about them.

That said, go visit PADI Quality Management. Without a lot of proof I doubt anything will happen but if enough people report the shop, PADI will have to take notice.

If the shop you are currently enrolled in for your DM is the same shop then you have a dilemma. If the local dive shops know about this shop and its tendency to pass unqualified divers, they would be unwilling to hire you as a DM. This means you will either have your DM and no where to work or you will end up working for the questionable shop. If you don't toe the party line and turn a blind eye to them passing unqualified divers they would fire you.

I would not want to associate myself with a shop that passes unqualified divers. If possible, switch your DM to a different shop. If not, finish your DM and consider a different shop for your next step.

 

[fisheater]

Alas, yes.

When you become an instructor, do what you can to limit that regrettable practice.

 

[divermike1011]

Thanks for the well thought out responses everyone, I appreciate the feedback. In answer to some of the ones you asked, yes, this is regrettably the dive shop I am enrolled in DM with, and yes, I did put down a sizable deposit for books and a space in the course. I've been an instructor in the past myself (Navy "C" school) and I've seen my share of people pass on into the fleet who shouldn't I guess I hadn't really thought about those times until I read your post Jim. 888, I will check out the PADI ethics page. I agree with all of you that it does put me in an awkward position, and since there is zero proof I doubt much can be done. I do agree that this is not a person I want training me, and I will talk to the LDS owner and see if I can just pay for the course books and take myself somewhere else for the didactic portion. I don't know what kind of reputation this particular dive shop has, although I did find out recently its CD has left several other reputable shops in the area in the past, although I have no idea why (I can guess, but I don't know). Here on Oahu I don't know how much c-cards from this particular LDS mean, but as my wife and I are moving to Seattle once I get discharged I want to get the best experience I can because I would imagine the job market is a little more competitive with fewer LDS and harsher conditions. Thanks for the replays, and Fisheater I will do my best to stop the practice when I become an instructor.

Michael

 

[DevonDiver]

What bothers me is that she passed the course (she didn't meet the exam standards either) l

How did she not meet the exam standards? Below the pass rate stated in PADI standards? She did not re-take?

 

[divermike1011]

DD: She got about half of the questions wrong, and the instructor allowed her to correct her answers from the key. This may be allowed, I'm not sure, but simply telling someone the answers and then moving on does not seem kosher to me.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It's not. She should have received more time in the classroom and given specific areas to concentrate on during study. This is one of the things I have against self study unless it's to reinforce the knowledge the instructor passes on to them. It should not replace that interaction between student and educator. Students think they have the answers down when they don't. Or they may have the answers but do not understand them. I like lecturing and actually teaching in the classroom. I see when students get it and by getting them involved with questions from me and encouraging them to ask questions I know when they have not only an answer but know the route it took to get it. That to me is the important part. I don't want parrots who only repeat things they do not understand.

 

[TSandM]

I haven't specifically seen people who were uncomfortable in the water encouraged into DM classes, but I HAVE seen people whose diving experience was absolutely minimal, and whose diving skills were rudimentary, encouraged into the classes. One such person (briefly one of Peter's students) later acknowledged to Peter that his advice to delay getting into a DM program was spot-on, and this person has put his class on hold.

It's a profit center for the shop, not just in class fees, but in unpaid labor thereafter.

 

[edm81363]

You got a slight peek behind the curtain of the dive training industry. Instructors frequently have financial incentive to move divers along in training. They also are required to get a certain number of each certification issued (depending on agency) for them to be able to move ahead. This creates a quasi-pyramid scheme that does not honor or respect safe diving at times.

I'm a Divemaster that has been pressured to move on to AI or Instructor. I'm not taking that step until that makes sense for me, if ever. Once I have learned everything I could possibly need to know as a DM I'll consider it.

My personal viewpoint is that there should be experience requirements that must be met before you can move on. As a DM Candidate, I worked with 5 complete Open Water Class cycles. Looking back on it, that experience was invaluable, especially in our cold and low visibility Pacific Northwest conditions. Your mileage may vary.

A bit off topic, but some advice to you as a DM Candidate - the best piece of gear you'll ever have is humility.