Missing Diver at Lake Pleasant

[ScubaSteve]

While I agree with most of your post, I have to comment on your assessment of an AOW student. Many shops encourage students to go right into AOW out of OW. So an AOW student could end up with an AOW card with only 9 dives (4 OW checkout dives and 5 AOW checkout dives). I'm not saying that was the case here, but it is quite common. The AOW certification means nothing more than a diver has been exposed to 5 different attributes of diving, including deep (minimum 61') and navigation.

I agree with you. Trust me I am one of the people that will lobby to make a certain level prior to AOW being an option. However, even fresh out of OW, each AOW student SHOULD possess sufficient qualifications/skills as a diver to handle themselves safely on AOW dives. If the diver does not possess the ability to safely dive then they likely were certified OW when they should not have. If the diver is fresh out of OW but that was warm/clear waters, then they never should have been in the class dives to begin with.

My point was that an AOW class is different than an AOW class no matter how you slice it. The divers should be capable of diving safely in the area that is being deemed by a few as way too dangerous for an AOW class.

 

[Jax]

While I agree with most of your post, I have to comment on your assessment of an AOW student. Many shops encourage students to go right into AOW out of OW. So an AOW student could end up with an AOW card with only 9 dives (4 OW checkout dives and 5 AOW checkout dives). I'm not saying that was the case here, but it is quite common. The AOW certification means nothing more than a diver has been exposed to 5 different attributes of diving, including deep (minimum 61') and navigation.

I agree with you. Trust me I am one of the people that will lobby to make a certain level prior to AOW being an option. However, even fresh out of OW, each AOW student SHOULD possess sufficient qualifications/skills as a diver to handle themselves safely on AOW dives. If the diver does not possess the ability to safely dive then they likely were certified OW when they should not have. If the diver is fresh out of OW but that was warm/clear waters, then they never should have been in the class dives to begin with.

My point was that an AOW class is different than an AOW class no matter how you slice it. The divers should be capable of diving safely in the area that is being deemed by a few as way too dangerous for an AOW class.

Now y'all are going to catch flak from the old timers that say OW and AOW should be all taught at once, like the good ol' days . . . :snicker:

I don't have a dog in this fight! I'm w/Cave Diver's assessment that some are ready for AOW right away, and some need more dive time, and it depends on the diver.

 

[IDS_Bill]

Now y'all are going to catch flak from the old timers that say OW and AOW should be all taught at once, like the good ol' days . . . :snicker:

I don't have a dog in this fight! I'm w/Cave Diver's assessment that some are ready for AOW right away, and some need more dive time, and it depends on the diver.

It depends upon the diver and the instruction. It's one thing to be certified as an AOW diver, it's quite another to actually BE an Advanced diver.

It's like in Kempo - they tell us when you are awarded your black belt, it means you are a really good Brown Belt. It is up to the student to continue to work to improve skills and experience.

All that aside, it's irrelevant since we weren't under the water. All we can do is keep looking once MCSO clears diving there again.

 

[divecommunity]

In response to AZSCUBAGUY78, I completely understand your feelings about going right back out to the site where Tim went missing. Classes will continue to be taught, business' will go on and new divers will be certified. From what I read on your post, it sounds like you think its too soon to be teaching on the Dam..correct me if im wrong. I agree with you to a certain extent. Tec divers are at the Dam training every weekend and that doesnt make them bad or wrong. I do agree with some of the other posts however, an advanced certification doesnt make you an advanced diver and although PADI pushes you through the courses, it goes back to the diver and the intructor. If you as a diver are not comfortable with your surroundings, you need to speak up and let your instructor know. I have been on the DAM several times and it is not a horrible place to dive. In fact, it can be a great dive! When the visability is low, divers need to plan out their dive and follow it, and stay together. The whole point of recreational diving is the BUDDY SYSTEM. When you are in class, Padi states that a divemaster or instructor should be with you at all times. We as a dive community have learned something from this unfortunate situation. We will continue to search for Tim and get him home to his family. As Tim's mom said "although his body is still down there, his soul is with God".

 

[IDS_Bill]

It depends upon the diver and the instruction. It's one thing to be certified as an AOW diver, it's quite another to actually BE an Advanced diver.

It's like in Kempo - they tell us when you are awarded your black belt, it means you are a really good Brown Belt. It is up to the student to continue to work to improve skills and experience.

All that aside, it's irrelevant since we weren't under the water. All we can do is keep looking once MCSO clears diving there again.

BTW - as inferred in my last quote, they have closed the area as a crime scene again and told us not to dive there. With the improving viz, the ROV should work better with less backscatter from lights.

It was actually pretty decent and peaceful down there.

 

[BulletProofAz]

I agree as well that the dam at the moment isn't the greatest place had the boats out there been teaching AOW. As far as tec, sure. Why wouldn't it be a perfect place to hold a tec dive? I am related to the crew of the local dive op so needless to say, I have been to the dam, and I have run into some pretty scary situations, as well as some pretty awesome dives! It all depends on the variables given on any certain day. I agree with divecommunity, business must go on. As far as the local dive op out on the lake, they did not shut down for the winter because of this unfortunate incident. This was merely a catalyst for what was already in place.

I am proud to consider myself a member of The Scubateers!

I am proud to know the search team who went in yesterday looking for Tim. An honorable group to say the least!

Tim's family and loved ones are in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[cruiser]

BTW - as inferred in my last quote, they have closed the area as a crime scene again and told us not to dive there. With the improving viz, the ROV should work better with less backscatter from lights.

It was actually pretty decent and peaceful down there.

Do the police now think a crime was committed?

 

[IDS_Bill]

Do the police now think a crime was committed?

You're kidding right? I'm nobody to answer that question. I'm just trying to find the guy.....

 

[Jax]

Do the police now think a crime was committed?

I really don't know MC procedures, but the term "crime scene" comes from the yellow tape seen so often on TV. It probably should be called "scene of the investigation", but people tend to stick to the term.

 

[IDS_Bill]

I really don't know MC procedures, but the term "crime scene" comes from the yellow tape seen so often on TV. It probably should be called "scene of the investigation", but people tend to stick to the term.

Completely Non Valued Added.....