Missing Diver Off Vandenberg?

[Dody]

I had a similar problem at Sund Rock. I was descending slightly below hey wife and visibility went to complete zero. Took me a bit to get oriented and come up into water that didn't look like ink. I found her pretty quickly once I could see. It felt longer but it was probably two minutes.

I REALLY panicked only once in my life. 22 years ago when I lost my one year old son in a mall. I am pretty sure that losing sight of my wife for 2 minutes underwater would elevate my heart rate higher than an OOA incident. And not only because I believe that her brothers who are not divers would kill me if anything happens. I hate tether but for spouses, it is a good middle ground.

 

[scubadada]

I REALLY panicked only once in my life. 22 years ago when I lost my one year old son in a mall. I am pretty sure that losing sight of my wife for 2 minutes underwater would elevate my heart rate higher than an OOA incident. And not only because I believe that her brothers who are not divers would kill me if anything happens. I hate tether but for spouses, it is a good middle ground.

No

 

[Wookie]

Do you mean deeper than 85?

So locating them such that they top at say 95-100 feet (allowing for some hurricane relocation buffer) would put the upper sections in more friendly, advanced-rec accessible depths.

And this is why the Oriskany is in 95 feet of water, as well as the Vandenberg. Spiegal Grove may be a bit shallower?

 

[yle]

And this is why the Oriskany is in 95 feet of water, as well as the Vandenberg. Spiegal Grove may be a bit shallower?

IIRC, the shallowest part of the SG is at about 65 ft depth. And the sand is 130 feet.

But it has about 8 "permanent" buoys (well, as permanent as nature allows.)

 

[SwennyKL]

I worked as a divemaster/instructor in Key West from 2010-2016. Have around 1500 dives on that wreck, all functioning as a Guide or teaching Wreck or Deep Dive Specialty courses. I cannot fathom how a "divemaster" "loses sight" of a diver in his or her care. In all my years of teaching SCUBA (1993-Present Day) all over the world- I have NEVER "lost sight" of anyone in my charge. That's the ESSENCE of being a "Professional". A big part of the problem is the reduction of dives necessary to enter the Divemaster Course and the IDC/IE. Too many people running around with Divemaster and Instructor Cards that have NO BUSINESS supervising divers or teaching SCUBA. A few of them are "working" in Key West. The best advice I can give has been stated by others- Train constantly, and be prepared to be self sufficient.
Sad to see another accident occur that was totally preventable.

 

[yle]

I worked as a divemaster/instructor in Key West from 2010-2016. Have around 1500 dives on that wreck, all functioning as a Guide or teaching Wreck or Deep Dive Specialty courses. I cannot fathom how a "divemaster" "loses sight" of a diver in his or her care.

Duty of care is pretty well defined for an instructor and student, but not so much for a "guide" and divers being guided. Divers being "guided" are typically expected to be already qualified for the dive and be responsible for themselves (and their designated buddy.)

I have always assumed that a "guide" is not responsible for me, and most guides do not seem to mind when my buddy and I are temporarily out of the guide's sight. (Plenty of times in Cozumel I've lagged far enough behind that the guide didn't see me for the latter half of the dive. And they have a lot of experience!) This might be because the guide is inexperienced (as you mention) or it might be because the expectations of the guide and divers were clearly communicated prior to the dive.

On the other hand, if the pre-dive briefing from the guide was "I am everyone's buddy, and I expect everyone to stay with me at all times", then that's a different story.

Suggesting that a guide was derelict in their duties only because they didn't have constant eye contact with every diver, without knowing more about the experience level of the group or the pre-dive instructions, might be a bit premature.

The best advice I can give has been stated by others- Train constantly, and be prepared to be self sufficient.

Agree with you 100% on both.

 

[boulderjohn]

A divemaster/dive guide has an employer, and the employer defines the role of the employee. In a thread a few years ago on this topic, several dive operation owners chimed in, and they all agreed that the safety of the divers was the dive guide's primary responsibility.

Monitoring the safety of the divers can look very differently depending upon the divers. A diver who demonstrates strong competence will be given a lot of freedom to lag behind, poke around, wander off a little, etc. That same guide giving divers such freedom may spend an entire dive literally holding a diver's hand, something I have seen more than once.

EDIT: I used to use a dive operation in Florida that announced that they would have a DM in the water during wreck dives, and if divers wished, they could tag along with the DM. Otherwise, divers were on their own. That was that employer's expectation for the DM.

 

[Open Ocean Diver]

A divemaster/dive guide has an employer, and the employer defines the role of the employee. In a thread a few years ago on this topic, several dive operation owners chimed in, and they all agreed that the safety of the divers was the dive guide's primary responsibility.

Monitoring the safety of the divers can look very differently depending upon the divers. A diver who demonstrates strong competence will be given a lot of freedom to lag behind, poke around, wander off a little, etc. That same guide giving divers such freedom may spend an entire dive literally holding a diver's hand, something I have seen more than once.

EDIT: I used to use a dive operation in Florida that announced that they would have a DM in the water during wreck dives, and if divers wished, they could tag along with the DM. Otherwise, divers were on their own. That was that employer's expectation for the DM.

This is my experience in Florida too.

I found this definition: in this link.

The Proper Role of a Dive Guide • Scuba Diver Life

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I'm most familiar with the dive guides in Palm Beach County. Most boats (not all but most) put 1 dive guide in the water with one large group. That guide is responsible to point out cool stuff, serve as a reference for the group, tow the flag, and ensure that anyone left around them at the max dive time comes up with them. They are not responsible for the safety of the group. They expect everyone to either be in buddy pairs/teams or equipped for solo diving. If you are alone but not solo diving they will pair you up with a buddy.

With that said I have seen a diver full on run out of air at 90' on a drift dive without being close to their designated buddy and with no redundant air. They went up to the guide who calmly got him on her alternate and ascended with him slowly. I saw what was occurring and ascended with them to assist and share air if needed. The dive was over for them (and for me) at that point but that was my choosing. The majority of the large group continued the dive without the guide. No issues as everyone is briefed to continue the dive as normal regardless of the presence of the guide, ascend at the max time or low gas limit, shoot your DSMB and surface.

Being a solo diver I will often stray away from the guide and the group especially if the group is large or if divers in the group are annoying. That happens alot! Often times I will then reunite with the guide after most of the group has blown through their gas and ascended. Sometimes I never do and just shoot my DSMB on ascent. Never have I expected the guide to be responsible for my safety.

I'm not sure if this is how the charters on the Vandenberg work on not. It sounds like it might be a tighter relationship between the Guide and the customers. In my opinion if you require that kind of babysitting you should be hiring a private guide/DM and paying for that service.

 

[Wookie]

From the Captain Hook's website: At Capt. Hooks Dive Key West, we provide a complimentary divemaster with each dive trip. They know the reef and the local marine residents, and they can point out the highlights on our dives. Having a divemaster in the water has helped many of our divers that have not been diving in a while to reach a higher comfort level by knowing there is someone nearby who can help. The divemaster is only there if you want to use them as a guide, it is your choice, and many of our divers explore on their own with their dive buddy.