Moderation: Too much or too little?

[dmoore19]

I haven't had a chance to read the rest of this thread, but since I clicked to the back page, I'm going to answer this for you Bob.

I believe the thread you're talking about was removed by me. It was removed because a particular user posted something very offensive on his status line and only an Admin or the user themselves can edit that. Several mods, including myself tried and were unable to edit that portion of his profile. As a result, all of his posts were removed until that can be handled, and as you may be aware, if the first post of a thread is removed, that deletes the entire thread. The reason that all of his posts were removed is because EVERY post he made contains the offensive line.

I understand that this seems like an over reaction by some of you, but it's the best solution we had at that moment in time to correct the issue that was brought to our attention. Once we can get the individual problem sorted out, we'll see what can be done to restore the affected posts and threads.

I see that the thread is already back and viewable. Thanks.

Maybe we as users should be a little more thankful and a little less critical........Except for in the pub.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I see that the thread is already back and viewable. Thanks.

Maybe we as users should be a little more thankful and a little less critical........Except for in the pub.

Agreed ... but keep in mind that the initial mod post said something to the effect of "It may be back in a few days ... but I tend to doubt it."

Hence the reason for my comments ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[diversteve]

I've tried to stay out of this thread but I want to set some things straight.

The reported thread was removed last night around 7PM my local time. Initially by me. As was explained above by CD it was either that or allow the offensive comments to remain in clear violation of the ToS - which was currently being reported more than once simultaneously - as well as discussed in the thread. Right after doing that I spent the better part of 20mins. in our Administration Control panel trying to figure out a way to remove the offensive status line comments but was unsuccessful as I don't have the privileges.

Or would you have preferred that we left them intact?

This morning at 4AM local time it comes up here for discussion? Really? C'mon Bob - you were a mod and know how long these things take.

Some of us do this odd thing called sleeping at night...

Somewhere in this thread or another it was mentioned that rather than just removing a post it would be nice if a notification was left.

So trying to accommodate that request gets this response?

I guess I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

The thread was restored this morning with references to the offensive material removed.

But currently it's gone again now since I thought - but just noticed - that the original status line hasn't been modified yet. So until we can resolve that it will stay off-line.

I'll be re-posting to that effect now in the holding thread.

It may be back in a few days ... but I tend to doubt it.

Could I have worded this better? Probably...But at the time I had not made a decision about it as I first wanted to review the entire thread.

We should mention that this was in the Pub also. So not affecting probably more than the several dozen members who were following the thread.

I'm sorry but I just can't see how a follow-up thread to another active thread on this subject in the Pub can be such a problem...but that's just me.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Steve ... for the record ...

- I was one of the people who reported the thread, and requested a permaban of the offensive member.
- I already stated that Cave Diver's explanation was reasonable

My follow-on post was in response to something I perceived to be indicating that I was being unreasonable. It was not.

The only reason I posted my concerns here when the thread was pulled was because of the second part of your comment ... "but I tend to doubt it" ... indicating that the thread probably would not be restored.

You subsequently removed that part ... indicating to me that you also realized it wasn't a wise choice of words.

Had you left it off to begin with, we would not now be having this conversation. I WANTED the offending member's comments pulled. I didn't think it necessary to pull the whole thread in order to do so. Nor did I think it necessary to make a statement to indicate that the thread probably wouldn't be coming back. A lot of other people were participating in a conversation that were completely in compliance with the rules for posting.

Please don't trivialize me or other members with comments about where we post, or how little our contributions in a given forum should mean. If a forum exists in this board, its members are deserving of some basic respect ... given that they post within the rules for that forum. We did ... and if you cannot show us the respect we deserve, then don't expect much in return.

If you want to continue this conversation, I recommend we do so privately ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[diversteve]

Steve ... for the record ...

You subsequently removed that part ... indicating to me that you also realized it wasn't a wise choice of words.

Actually I realized it would be likely be misunderstood so removed it for that reason.

Please don't trivialize me or other members with comments about where we post, or how little our contributions in a given forum should mean. If a forum exists in this board, its members are deserving of some basic respect ... given that they post within the rules for that forum. We did ... and if you cannot show us the respect we deserve, then don't expect much in return.

Now you're reading something into my words that isn't there. That thread didn't even exist except till a few days ago when the OP started it because he wasn't happy with the way a different thread in the Pub was going.

Please stop closing threads because of one disruptive individual!

Boot the perp and delete the violations. Why punish everyone because of the misbehavior of one individual?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

And this was one of the reasons I did re-open it also. So I'm not trivializing you at all.

If you want to continue this conversation, I recommend we do so privately ...

I'm done. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm OK with that hope you are also.

 

[Cave Diver]

The "other smiley" you were referring to didn't involve a flag pole and two letters did it? I don't think I ever used it, but noticed that it seems to have been removed too. Just curious. THAT is one emoticon I could see (and have a few times) being abused.

No, but I won't elaborate any further on the specific circumstances.

Many people have also likely decided against voting at all based on the knowledge that nothing will change from a poll on ScubaBoard. Poll or not, the words that are being spoken are what matters. And these words that matter are being spoken all over the board. I see this poll as nothing more than a means to a discussion on the topic.

Well said.

Human error, fair enough.

But I'm still wondering why some posts were removed from the originating thread for being off topic because they were "discussing the prerogative of the OP to offer an opinion", & some weren't.

A lot of it is going to come down to a judgment call. We expect, and allow topics to drift a certain degree off of center. There are a lot of factors to be considered in doing this, and there are no hard and fast rules to what is going to be an acceptable degree. I think there are two important concepts to bear in mind in this regard:

1. If we make a rigid guideline to acceptable postings, it's going to stifle discussion by being too stringent.
2. By allowing a degree of latitude that is open to interpretation there is always going to be some degree of inconsistency.

Maybe if one mod handled every single one of these cases there would be a more uniform response, but that's not really practical. We realize the system is less than perfect and we constantly look for ways to improve it and implement what we can. This thread is one such example.

Ps. It seems to be a little difficult to discuss our feelings about moderation, if the moderators aren't supposed to talk about the specifics.

Ive gone out on a limb a bit to try and explain some of the generalities of how things are done and why. I'll go into as much detail as I can, but I'm not going to publicly discuss a specific action against another user. If an action is against you, I'll be happy to discuss it with you privately and explain it to the best of my ability. You still might not agree with the decision, but hopefully it will give you a better understanding of where it's coming from.

 

[boulderjohn]

Ive gone out on a limb a bit to try and explain some of the generalities of how things are done and why. I'll go into as much detail as I can, but I'm not going to publicly discuss a specific action against another user. If an action is against you, I'll be happy to discuss it with you privately and explain it to the best of my ability. You still might not agree with the decision, but hopefully it will give you a better understanding of where it's coming from.

A lot of life is like that.

I was once the administrator of a small team of educators. I tried to build a cohesive team that enjoyed working together, and for quite some time we were one happy family. Then the school district assigned someone to our team, someone who was not getting along with her supervisor in her former location. I brought her into the team, and for a while we were still one happy family. She was very likable and fit in immediately. The work we were doing was of the kind that gave each member a lot of freedom to work independently. Eventually I got a bit suspicious about the activities of our new member, and I did some investigation. I realized that she was simply not doing her job, and I began to deal with it privately, just between the two of us. The problem was pretty serious, and her job was in jeopardy. She decided to use a strategy of telling her version of what was going on to the rest of the team, which of course amounted to me being a total unfair jerk. As the administrator, it would have been unethical for me to comment. It created a real rift in the program as she continually lied though her teeth (I didn't find out how much until after she was finally fired) and I was required to stay silent.

The situation is analogous. In many cases it would be unethical for moderators to talk about the actions they took regarding an individual, but there is nothing stopping others from speculating and spreading unfounded rumors. Moderators discuss what should be done often, and they don't always agree. It would be unethical for a moderator to bring details from those discussions out to the general public. Not only would it be unethical, it would lead inevitably to even more divisive commentary.

 

[MRadke]

I did not take the time to read all of the posts on this thread. I'm all in favor of moderating for language and personal attacks. What annoys me is the way the moderation is being done by some. I've seen quite a few threads lately that have been parsed, with portions being moved into one or more different forums. Either lock the offending threads, or deal with the offending posters. Or move the thread into a gloves off portion of the board so that the combatants can duke it out until they are tired of fighting. Do that and I might even break out a popcorn smiley as I watch the fray.

Splitting the threads up into different sections is more work than it is worth and only spreads the 'venom' to parts of the board that had been oblivious.

In any case, I'm relatively new here, I don't post much but I read a lot. Some of the people that you have moderated right off the board were a good read, even if it was bs. Give the readers of the board credit for being able to sort the bs artists from the real divers on their own.

My 2 cents