Mr Chattertons Self Reliance Article...

[DaleC]

deleted...

Not where I want to go or the person I want to be - good night - play safe.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Oh

I was spearfishing at 200 feet on a single Al 80... Stupid me.

You're gonna DIE

 

[Pullmyfinger]

You know, I wish my wife hadn't explained your avatar to me... very disturbing.

???
You and your wife clearly see something I do not.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

deleted...

Not where I want to go or the person I want to be - good night - play safe.

Just when I was about to tell a relevant story about "This one time in band camp..."

 

[AfterDark]

So John Chatterton is a rubberneck, got it.

I thought John blog was about avoiding the "rubberneckers", now he is one?

 

[danvolker]

Haters gotta hate.

The real problem is that some simply do not want to attempt to understand another POV. So Dan, words in that case are meaningless but not because they lack meaning - but because people simply choose not to hear them. It speaks to a form of intellectual dishonesty wherein people pretend to listen while they are only formulating their rebuttal.

I thought for a moment someone was engaging in discussion. Stupid me.

I think we are in a sort of agreement on this.....I see this argument revolving around ethics, not dive training styles so much....the chords that were "plucked", were key aspects to the ethical mandates each of us uses. This is very much like Religion, when two of different faiths choose to argue about their religions....Rarely does this provide an epiphany for either, and it is rarer still for one to change thier position as an outcome of the arguement.

I engaged in this because when new divers are being trained, they "might" be "taught" that there is an "exemption" to their normal belief system, and that because diving can place you in Life and Death challenges, a different perspective needs to be embraced from what they had ever considered. Since most dive students have never faced life and death challenges in any predictable manner, they can believe they are not prepared for this, and could embrace this new "teaching".

But back to the discussion here, with all the long time divers, with firmly established ideas on how their own personal ethics should be appied to diving scenarios, I would be shocked if even one has changed their decision making process from this thread.....What might have changed is how Instructors decide to discuss the life and death choices, and how they discuss buddy responsibilities and self reliance ( that those incompetent on their own--totally dependent on another, can NOT be true buddies).

 

[Bopper]

???
You and your wife clearly see something I do not.

He might be confusing the words avatar with handle.It's probably your handle that's disturbing.

How a wife explains the expression to a husband and not the other way around is a different question....

 

[DaleC]

I agree with that Dan.
My take is that the article is best directed at those entry level tech divers who have enough money, but not enough skill or insight, to engage in big dives.

As for new divers, I think it would be great if agencies put some teeth behind their teaching though I think there also needs to be options for those who choose a different path. For this I applaud certain 3 letter agencies who are able, through group peer pressure, to enforce a form of compliance to their principles. Within the group I see this as positive and I actually like it.

The thing is you can't transplant that to outside groups because there isn't that same sense of cohesiveness. From my experiential POV it's the wild west out there and one either adapts or dives with risk. Some people adapt by joining a more cohesive group, by only diving on boats with like minded divers (as you suggested), or by becoming self reliant. I think that's what John and some others like myself have done.

I'm a social animal and I have a lot of diving friends but the truth is I don't like (aspects) of how some of them dive. I try to spend time with them (which means diving) while not putting my safety in their hands. Of course, as the dives get more challenging the buddy pool shrinks but I just can't write all those others off because they don't do things my way.

I actually prefer a third option, in which I am self reliant when in an unknown setting or solo, and part of a strong team when buddy diving - which is why I can understand these discussions from both/several POV's. It's the great challenge of diving IMO and I like to read how others are navigating their paths as well.

That's why I read both the DIR forum and the Solo forum.

 

[flots am]

I actually prefer a third option, in which I am self reliant when in an unknown setting or solo, and part of a strong team when buddy diving - which is why I can understand these discussions from both/several POV's. It's the great challenge of diving IMO and I like to read how others are navigating their paths as well.

That's why I read both the DIR forum and the Solo forum.

Me too. They all have something to offer. It's interesting that TDI's Solo Diving class seems to be roughly equivalent of what would have been the level of training that Open Water was a couple of decades ago.

flots.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

.

You're back, like an unexpected ex-girlfriend...


...with a knife