My Venture into GUE - Another view

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It would be nice to hear from Bob Sherwood, both sides of the story would be helpful.

Why.... I took GUE-f from Bob and also spent many days / classes doing some video for him. He is a true professional in and out of the water. He truly loves to teach and have his students do well. Can't tell you how many times he was down in the dumps after class because a few students did not pass. I think he feels every student is a direct reflection on him. Which in some ways they are.

If a few people are not happy with the class then talk to him about it. If it's somthing he feels was done wrong I'm sure he would try and make it right. Sounds to me that somethings missing? :D
 
I can not speak for Bob, but I think I understand why folks like Bob are very hesitant to post here.

bummer%20of%20a%20birthmark.jpg

Bummer of a birthmark, Hal

Just my hunch, of course.
 
I am sure people will absolutely not want to hear this but it is possible that the recollection of the few may not be how Bob remembers it all happening. IF this is the case (and I am not saying it is), Bob would know that "correcting" them in a thread such as this would cause quite the ruckus and nobody would look good coming out of it.

This is of course only one additional possible scenario......

I can not speak for Bob, but I think I understand why folks like Bob are very hesitant to post here.

bummer%20of%20a%20birthmark.jpg

Bummer of a birthmark, Hal

Just my hunch, of course.
 
Today there seemed to be some discussion/concern about the academic instruction - one specific example was related to whether the benefits of tight team formation came up in class or not. Although I originally had no intention of posting to this thread, since I did, in fact, break my silence yesterday, and I feel like that topic needs to be responded to, I guess I'll keep on going. (The reason for my silence centers around concern that meanings are not always conveyed as intended via the written word but I guess I'll take that risk).

So... I don't want to write a book here… I'm going to limit myself to short remarks related to my perspective on the academic portion of the class. In general, I learned more in this session of Fundies than in any other scuba class i've taken to date, certainly more than I expected. Questions were answered in detail, discussion was allowed, there were even times the instructors could have cut us off and they didn't. (although I may sensed frustration once or twice :)) In the areas where I found the pre-class materials somewhat confusing, everything was explained in an easy-to-understand manner. Granted, my exposure to some of these topics was much more limited than some of my fellow classmate's, but for me, this was one of the best aspects of the class.

With regards to the specific topic that came up earlier today - I am pretty sure we discussed the benefits of tight team formation on ascents and descents. If one or two benefits, that were covered in the posts earlier in this thread, were missed, I can live with that - that's what the internet is for, right? :D I am sure it is the rare class session where every element of the collective GUE knowledge is taught.:wink:

That's it! Just couldn't sit on the sidelines any longer! :coffee:

Kate AKA Student #4 to post on this thread

and how strange that my post is 444 in the thread!!!
 
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Pretty much. I figured I fubared the descent to some extent by trying to do too much, lead since no-one else knew where they were or what to expect, keep everyone together, possibly arrive on the bottom a smidge early to run line if we weren't on the wreck etc. When that didn't work and we were 1/2way to a major with #3 about 20ft above us I thumbed it to halt the ambiguity. Would it have been better to "GUEEDGE" in full beforehand? Probably, but still might not have gotten #3 to flash harder when the ears acted up surprisingly close to the bottom.

Are these the things you're 'sorta' introduced to in GUE-F but "learn" in the real world (like the other class skills), I think so.

The unambiguous signal was definitely appreciated. I'm slowly learning the limits of hand signal vocabulary, as my usual m.o. is to be too chatty....
 
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Having read this entire thread, my first thought was to just let everyone one sort it out, and avoid joining the fray. Several calls and messages have urged me to respond. Where to start..... I don't post here often. I don't type as well as I talk, and I have a strong student to instructor confidentiality, and so, trying to answer all of the issues brought up here I can not; as to discuss some of them I would violate the above. That said however "If anyone wishes to rescind that agreement, I am fully prepared to discuss in detail your/my individual performance/weaknesses". during our time together.
Anyone that knows me, understands that I am passionate and committed to teaching. As a founding GUE instructor and a GUE Training Council member that has dedicated a significant part of my life to growing and promoting our organization and its goals to grow and offer an alternative to the industry, I always suffer whenever students do not meet their goals. For those that do not know me, I will let my students speak for me, they are the best source of valid information. As my good friend who has taught college level courses for over 30 years tells it: "If everyone you teach loves you, you are not doing your job well." Some will not be successful despite all the best efforts. It is what it is, and it aint what it aint. I am human, and like everyone I have better days and worse. I have stated in other posts that I am not perfect, never done a perfect dive, nor do I expect it from my students. Every class I teach, I leave wishing that I could have done a better job.
That said,
Prior to signing up for class, students are asked to contact the instructor to be sure that this is appropriate step for them. the standard question asked is, "can you stop, stay in a fixed position in neutral buoyancy while maintaining good trim, long enough to watch a demonstration?" If the answer is yes, then you are probably ready for the fundamentals class. If no, then you have no place in a fundamentals class you are better served starting with the primer/buoyancy control class. Sadly it seems, people often are either unaware or unwilling to admit that they really don't possess this level of control. they say, sure I can do that. but on the first day when asked to stop and watch the demo, they are constantly moving forward, bouncing off the bottom with uncontrollable buoyancy, and needing to be assisted by the instructor to move back so the instructor can do the demo. What can you do now? You as the instructor/student are committed to the time, and need to do the best you can with the time you have. This I believe is where the primer prior to the fundamentals seems to be a reasonable option. From a historical perspective the fundamentals used to be the filter, now that fundamentals has become so comprehensive with information and skill sets, it might be time to make the primer the filter; especially if you lack community and resources for proper mentoring prior to class.)
The basics of fundamentals have not changed since I started teaching it many years ago. Head back, Hands up, Chest to knees flat, Butt tight, Feet flat. If there is a single student that I have taught that hasn't heard me say that at least 25 times, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. That should cover all of the how's to accomplish a stable platform . Now the difficult part..........students DOING IT CONSISTENTLY. Generally until you can create a stable platform, everything else is back shelf.
I would like to address class size, and logistics. Recently there seems to be some discussion with 6 person classes . I have been teaching 6 person fundamentals class' for years. With a max of six students, I would limit in water to max of 3 divers at one time, allowing attention to be focused solely on the team that was diving, while the other team practiced dry runs, ate , worked on equipment mods, and took needed breaks ect. This is not a waste of time but an effective use of it, I always increase the amount of days for the class to more than cover any gap potentially created by additional students. When traveling this becomes much more important and has proven to be very effective at improving the overall pass rate, This also allows for the best opportunity to build teams of similar skills and ability. In a class of three what do you do if one person or two is significantly holding back the others? once you get into the 4-6 range there are normally sets of equal or more closely related divers. then you can build teams to work on the areas of weakness,
Standards state 3 days for three people and 4 days for four or more people This was a 5 day class exceeding all standards and allowing ample time for each student to have multiple opportunities to achieve their goals. More water time is NOT always going to make a difference in the outcome as sometimes people will hit a wall within the time allotted. For many 5 days is enough, but for some 20 would not be enough. Time takes time!!!! Welcome to the journey.

As for some general information: the class being discussed was advertise to have an intern from day 1; the intern was in contact with many of the students prior to class, as he handled all of the logistics. However, I was the instructor in charge, and as such any and everything that happened in class is my responsibility and I will and do take responsibility for it. I own what I do, I wish others would share this sentiment. I believe that this class was a huge opportunity for a talented intern to learn way more than he would have ever learned in a smaller/shorter class, and for the students to get exposed to two passionate and earger to teach people who could offer different perspectives to them. Everyone in the class knew that there were 6 team members, in fact they created a private face book area to meet/greet and become familiar with each other months prior to the class start date. .

I agree that the first day was a bit light on water time, 40-45 minutes per team 2 teams of 3, We later adjusted the teams down to 3 teams of 2 members each to account for the difference in team performance and ability. the days that followed had similar times, but two dives per day(I counted a total of 9 dives for one team, and 8 for the others). actual minutes may vary, but I can only attest to me personally being in the water with each team way longer than has been stated here. I believe someone posted a nice chart on an earlier page that showed 6 dives in one day totaling 99 minutes. <G> (bottom timers often time out when in shallow water or when buoyancy control take you above their activation/shut off depth)
Once the teams were split into 3 two member teams, teams would be dismissed from class and allowed if they so desired, unlimited time to work on areas of weakness that had been coached to them during their in front of instructor time. This gave them literally hours of practice time. To be honest, We didn't do that the first day due to both time and facility requirements. As I understood it the facility did not allow for students to be independent of the instructors control, however after seeing what we were up against and discussion with them we agreed that as long as they were in the same body of water it was ok, i.e. not some in the pool while others were in the tank.
As has been stated, day four was to be held in the ocean. Remember this class was advertised to be held there and two days of diving was intentionally scheduled following the class to allow students the opportunity to fun dive utilizing the skills that they had been working on during class. It was a bit rough, but diveable. It would have been an average day on the water for any north east diver. Given that I have suffered seasickness first hand before, I am genuinely sympathetic to anyone who falls victim to it. Several bailed due to seasickness(unpredictable and unfortunate) We did vote to use an alternate inland lake for the final day of class. It is interesting to note that changing of site had little to do with performance even when current and waves were replaced with still calm but cooler water with significantly less visibility. Hindsight is perfect, of course if I could go back and change things I would change a few that would improve what we had, however, I don't believe that the overall outcome would change. Had this been a three person class, the same results would have been posted at games end.
It is always a challenge when your students struggle to meet course objectives. some come terribly unprepared for what is in front of them and often equipments makes their task even more difficult. fixing equipment and weak skills are possible only when people come with the proper attitude and desire to accomplish the task at hand. Remember it is the student that drives the equipment, not the equipment driving the student. I think sometimes people believe that they can just throw on abc equipment, and somehow they believe that is some magic carpet and should fly the dive perfectly for them. While some are able to accomplish organizational standards in the time allotted, the goal is to help everyone there work towards that end. However you can not solve all the world problems in a 5 day period, some won't be solved over a lifetime.
In closing, it is not my job to judge any divers personality or choices they make either in or out of the water, but it is my responsibility to represent well the standards and desires of our organization, so that those who do desire the drive and ambition to aspire to them are not disrespected by those that choose not to do so.
This type of training or diving is NOT for everyone, but for those that find this appealing, we welcome you with open arms to come and experience it for yourself, and make your own decision. I am truly thankful for all of you that have done so, have found your happy place as many have and for the continued support of what it is we do and will continue to do. thanks all. best, bob 6077653942
 
Thank you for that post Bob.
 
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