NAUI CPR course recognisation.

[Alfawolfje]

Thanks WB2GLP!

Which PADI office is this? I'm in Japan so the application is with PADI Japan.
The course was definitely hands-on with practice AED and CPR dummy and O2 administration practice. I even have photos of that.

---------- Post added June 26th, 2014 at 12:25 PM ----------

Ok, after further feedback, regardless of agency cards recognisation, I need EFRI for my future IDC and for EFRI I need EFR, so no way around doing this extra course it seems. Can't be helped.

 

[MB]

Sorry to hear this - just more "my agency is better than your agency" BS. Keep in mind that there is no ILCOR HQ that reviews and approves any courses by any agency. ILCOR gathers top scientists and health care professionals to review emergency care practices to see if the practices reflect the science. Then they publish the next generation of standards. There is no agency review and approval function.

Which leads to the conclusion that if an agency plays this game of non-recognition so that you'll take their version of the training before you even sign up, what can you expect from them in the future?
:doctor:

 

[Alfawolfje]

I have no problem that it was not accepted or refused if there is a good reasoning behind it.

But I wish agencies where more clear about details of their pre-requisites and list them on their website, like the actual lists. The "from a recognized agency" is broad and open to interpretation.

I always operated under the impression that up to IDC, agency certs did not matter and just based the choice of my courses on teacher and not on agency. Of course, for my instructor license I knew I will need to make a choice between agencies.

My second frustration is that the interpretation and "ruling" is not globally the same within the agency and different per PADI (regional) office. This does not seem right.

Not meaning to stir up a discussion but I was looking for clarity and correct interpretation. Things are what they are and I am lining up for a(nother) EFR course.

---------- Post added June 27th, 2014 at 10:21 PM ----------

Unfortunately NAUI never incorporated the 2010 ILCOR changes into their materials so your instructor is correct- the course does not meet the current ILCOR standards.

So on what is this statement based. Out of curiosity I asked NAUI HQ and they stated it is consistent with 2010 ILCOR. I did the course last year job 2013.

It is consistent with ILCOR 2010 and it is a hands on CPR course. At least according to current "facts".

I downloaded the ILCOR 2010 updates and reviewing my course book myself tomorrow for verification.

 

[spthomas]

Ok, here's the deal. ILCOR (the International Liason Committee On Resuscitation) sponsors a process that results in recommendations for CPR, AED, and First Aid practices. This is the about the science of Resuscitation, and it comes from experts from all over the world gathering all the relevant research studies, and meeting annually or so for several years to boil it down into recommendations. Then, the relevant standards bodies (European Resuscitation Council, American Heart Association, Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada, etc) take the recommendations and create guidelines. Then the legitimate training agencies create/update their programs based on the guidelines. Or not. Totally their choice, there is no requirement or approval process.

The latest ILCOR recommendations were in 2010. Most agencies adopted them.

We in the industry deal mostly legitimate training agencies, but also some truly substandard training providers. I can tell you the number one sign of a standard program: Totally Online Certification. It is never ok to get a CPR or First Aid card without demonstrating skills in front of a qualified instructor. NEVER! And there are a lot of websites out there who will do just that. They are shams, pure and simple.

I don't know about NAUI not adopting 2010 guidelines. It's their choice, as is whether to accept anyone else's card. But all the major scuba agencies and most of the top 5 or 6 national training agencies should mostly be accepted.

CPR and First Aid training is like scuba training; the instructor is very important to quality training.

Steve Thomas
SSI Divecon
ASHI Master Instructor Trainer

 

[MB]

...We in the industry deal mostly legitimate training agencies, but also some truly substandard training providers. I can tell you the number one sign of a standard program: Totally Online Certification. It is never ok to get a CPR or First Aid card without demonstrating skills in front of a qualified instructor. NEVER! And there are a lot of websites out there who will do just that. They are shams, pure and simple.

I think Steve meant to say: "...the number one sign of a sub-standard program: Totally Online Certification." Steve is absolutely correct in identifying the issue that shysters are hawking bogus training! It is never ok to "earn" a CPR rating without performing skills competently with an authentic instructor!

 

[Alfawolfje]

I completely follow you, but I didn't do an online course and had hands-on CPR class.

 

[spthomas]

Oops, autocorrect strikes again, yes online only classes are Substandard. But remember all agencies and employers can decide to accept or not accept any card. We see some hospitals that only accept AHA. There is no practical reason (except a little AHA armtwisting).

The scuba agencies did fine for years and none of them had their own CPR training. It's only been the last 15 years or so they found a business opportunity to control that and add a revenue stream by having their own. Though I bet scuba agency CPR is not well accepted outside this industry.

 

[Hawkwood]

.... Though I bet scuba agency CPR is not well accepted outside this industry.

Sorry, but you bet wrong. EFR is well recognized in the workplace - Canada, Australia, USA, etc.

I can't comment on other's though, but I would not see why they would not be as long as follow the syllabus set out but the various government labour ministries/departments, etc.

 

[spthomas]

You're right, if they are guideline compliant there is no reason they shouldn't be accepted. But I know that getting regulatory approval and staying in compliance with literally thousands of regulators like state boards of various trades, childcare regulators, US OSHA etc. Costs thousands of dollars every year. And since almost everyone who takes CPR is doing so to satisfy some regulatory requirement that's important. I wouldn't think scuba agencies would push that. But again no reason why not, I've just never seen one outside of the scuba industry.

 

[Hawkwood]

Well, PADI and EFR have gone to great lengths to do so. I do many EFR classes specifically for the workplace.