NAUI MAX Depth???

[chickdiver]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


Corn-Fed if you promise to stop following me around like a little kid, ok then, I will answer your question.

Before you were born in 1978, back in the late 60s and early 70s, scuba was first an extension of freediving. Thereafter it became an extension of Navy diving. Back then, when scuba was taught, it was taught either by a local county lifeguard or else by an X-Navy diver. This instructor taught you to his level. You became a lifeguard or a Navy diver. This meant you became a freediver, first. Then you learned the scuba. And then you learned decompression protocols in your basic open water course. You computed Navy repetitive groups and Navy decompression dives to 200 or more feet.

There were no B/Cs in those days, unless you count the Navy horsecollar, which was mostly a surface flotation device. Therefore you could not overweight yourself, and you needed a grasp of how to set your natural buoyancy neutral.

Guess where the only place today is where you can still learn all of that?

Answer: in technical diving.

So after you finish your OW course, then AOW, then basic nitrox, and rescue, and divemaster, and instructor, and advanced nitrox, staged deco, advanced air, and then trimix, plus whatever else interests you, like ice diving, cave diving, or shipwrecks ...

Then, you will have learned things the way thing were taught originally. When an open water course taught you everything. And when an instructor course made and instructor into a technical instructor as well.

The cave divers and the ice divers and the shipwreck divers of today do that well. And their instructors are instructors' instructors.

Thats why.

Did you learn that in your NAUI ITC?

 

[Big-t-2538]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...

Therefore you could not overweight yourself, and you needed a grasp of how to set your natural buoyancy neutral.

Guess where the only place today is where you can still learn all of that?

Answer: in technical diving.

So after you finish your OW course, then AOW, then basic nitrox, and rescue, and divemaster, and instructor, and advanced nitrox, staged deco, advanced air, and then trimix, plus whatever else interests you, like ice diving, cave diving, or shipwrecks ...

Then, you will have learned things the way thing were taught originally.

Why do you keep insisting that no one knows diddly squat coming out of open water....what the hell do you teach them man? And while I am very well aware I have a lot to learn, I don't think they were originally teaching Trimix...or even advanced Nitrox back "in the early days" where they wore stuff like UPs "roots rig" but you were there, I wasn't.

 

[Waterborne]

Why do you keep insisting that no one knows diddly squat coming out of open water....what the hell do you teach them man?

I was wondering the same thing. I thought that weighting, bouyancy control and dive planning were things taught to every OW diver. I didn't think that these things were reserved for more advanced courses later on in diving. But then again, according to one of Karls earlier posts in a different thread, we do things differently over here on the East side.

 

[chickdiver]

I don't think Karl intends to be condescending- he just can't help it. It would be interesting to know how long he has been an instructor- he comes across as one of the "newly minted" though I know he isnt, since NAUI is into 6 digit numbers now. He did, however, complete his ITC sometime after I did. His "newly minted" comments and the number confused me, so I verified him with NAUI HQ yesterday afternoon.... so.... folks he is the real deal- nice thought, huh?

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


Corn-Fed if you promise to stop following me around like a little kid, ok then, I will answer your question.

Before you were born in 1978, back in the late 60s and early 70s, scuba was first an extension of freediving. Thereafter it became an extension of Navy diving. Back then, when scuba was taught, it was taught either by a local county lifeguard or else by an X-Navy diver. This instructor taught you to his level. You became a lifeguard or a Navy diver. This meant you became a freediver, first. Then you learned the scuba. And then you learned decompression protocols in your basic open water course. You computed Navy repetitive groups and Navy decompression dives to 200 or more feet.

There were no B/Cs in those days, unless you count the Navy horsecollar, which was mostly a surface flotation device. Therefore you could not overweight yourself, and you needed a grasp of how to set your natural buoyancy neutral.

I was trained by PADI in 1983 before PADI had their own version of the dive tables. They used the NAVY tables with PADI stamped on them.

But Karl, surely to goodness you must know that PADI, NAUI, NASDS, YMCA, LA COUNTY were all agencies that came around in the 60's. In fact NASDS, NAUI, AND YMCA came around in the early 60's. So I find it hard to believe that LIFEGUARDS and NAVY MEN did all the training or even a small percentage of the training back then.

And, I have a nice, very nice, collection of diving antiques. There were horseshoe collors in the 60's that hooked up to a LP hose. They were super popular in the 70's and most divers used them for bouyancy control in the 70's. The jacket style BC's started to come out in about 79 or so and by the early 80's they were all over the place.

 

[Big-t-2538]

SCORE ResQ once bubbled...

But then again, according to one of Karls earlier posts in a different thread, we do things differently over here on the East side.

Dude...we need shirts...[size=1.5]<<in my best "thug in the hood" voice>>[/size] East Siiiiide

 

[cornfed]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...

Corn-Fed if you promise to stop following me around like a little kid

I'm not following you. You post so frequently that it's hard to find an active thread which you're not involved in. Oh, and I generally reply to things I disagree with or think are stupid. This makes your posts good candidates for my replies and hence the appearance that I'm stalking you.

ok then, I will answer your question.

It's about time you answered a direct question.

Before you were born in 1978, back in the late 60s and early 70s, scuba was first an extension of freediving. Thereafter it became an extension of Navy diving. Back then, when scuba was taught, it was taught either by a local county lifeguard or else by an X-Navy diver. This instructor taught you to his level. You became a lifeguard or a Navy diver. This meant you became a freediver, first. Then you learned the scuba.

So I'm 25? What's your point, that I wasn't alive when you got certified and hence not qualified to question you?

And then you learned decompression protocols in your basic open water course. You computed Navy repetitive groups and Navy decompression dives to 200 or more feet.

We covered this in my OW class, which as you pointed out could not have occurred during the period you're talking about. We were taught how to execute decompression dives? No, but we were taught how to read the navy decompression tables and talked at length about what was involved in doing the dives. It would be irresponsible to do decompression dives with a new diver. Even BASC, which is often held up as antithesis of recreational deco-phobia, doesn't do it.

There were no B/Cs in those days, unless you count the Navy horsecollar, which was mostly a surface flotation device. Therefore you could not overweight yourself, and you needed a grasp of how to set your natural buoyancy neutral.

Guess where the only place today is where you can still learn all of that?

Answer: in technical diving.

People commonly complain that the standards have dropped in recreational diving so your comments initially seems valid, but when you stop and think about it's just more bull****. Are you suggesting that recreational divers can't weight themselves or achieve neutral buoyancy and that they need technical training to remedy this? You said (in one of the other tread I'm stalking you in) that you dive a two piece 7mm suit with 30 lbs of lead, for crying out loud. I'm 6'2", 220lbs and I use about 22lbs for the same setup. How big are you? What tanks do you use? There has to be something to account for the difference because you were trained before I was born, back when men where men and classes actually taught you something.

So after you finish your OW course, then AOW, then basic nitrox, and rescue, and divemaster, and instructor, and advanced nitrox, staged deco, advanced air, and then trimix, plus whatever else interests you, like ice diving, cave diving, or shipwrecks ...

Then, you will have learned things the way thing were taught originally.

So "back in the day", OW classes covered trimix and cave diving? Karl, you do know that the both the NACD and NSS-CDS were started in 1968 (actually the NSS-CDS wasn't started until 1973 but the NSS published a cave diving manual in '68), don't you? So how could cave diving be covered as part of a basic diver's education in the late '60 to early '70s? And trimix? Cut me a break. Trimix has been around for quite a while but it didn't see much use outside or military or commercial operations until the late '80s when Exley was teaching it and I believe the first "official" class was IANTD's which wasn't released until '91.

Are training standards more relaxed then they previously were? Sure, or at least it seems that way from talking to people. But basic dive education didn't cover nitrox, divemaster, decompression, trimix and cave diving like you suggest. It doesn't matter if I was certified back then -- or even alive for that matter -- I can still spot bull**** when I see it.

Thats why.

Thanks, Karl. I'm glad you took the time to explain your views to us. I'm sure everyone found them quite illuminating.

 

[cornfed]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
Dude...we need shirts...[size=1.5]<<in my best "thug in the hood" voice>>[/size] East Siiiiide

If rec.scuba can have t-shirts, I don't see why not.

 

[paulwlee]

Karl, were you in the navy in the past by any chance?

 

[cornfed]

chickdiver once bubbled...
I don't think Karl intends to be condescending- he just can't help it. It would be interesting to know how long he has been an instructor- he comes across as one of the "newly minted" though I know he isnt, since NAUI is into 6 digit numbers now. He did, however, complete his ITC sometime after I did. His "newly minted" comments and the number confused me, so I verified him with NAUI HQ yesterday afternoon.... so.... folks he is the real deal- nice thought, huh?

It makes me sick.