Need light fins for backpacking through Puerto Rico

[VaScubalee]

Let me start off by saying Привет! This is my first post, and I do not own Force Fins (yet?). Right now I use Scuba Pro Twin Jet Max. I am planning a trip to Puerto Rico with some friends, and I am the only diver. The other focus will be exploring the island (and Viequez), backpacking and camping on the beaches and in the mountains/forests. Obviously, I will need to be traveling light, taking only what I can carry on my back. For this purpose, I have resigned myself to the fact that I will not be able to take much gear and will have to rent from the shops. However, I do want to take a mask, snorkel, and fins so I can atleast snorkel when I want, in the seas, rivers, and lakes.

Obviously, the fins are the trickiest of these items, and my Twins are out of the question. I had never heard of Force Fins, before I started looking for the most compact fins on the internet. Originally, I was just looking at small fins used exclusively for snorkeling, when I came across these. Now my curiosity has been peaked, and I wonder if these would be better for my purposes. I'm excited about the prospect of a lightweight, quality, American-made product that could reduce fatigue and help keep me under longer!!!

Is it possible that I might even stop using my beloved Twin Jets? (rhetorical)

Does anyone know the weight and dimensions for the FF? I wear a size 13 US Mens, and am also wondering what size I should get.

I'm contemplating the Original, Pro, or Adjustable in either so I could use them for warm diving there, and for diving in colder waters with a wetsuit back home. I also saw a post (I believe from Meesier42) about using the inserts to compensate the size difference between footwear (or lack of), which would be fine if that is a more compact option than the adjustable. Also, I understand the Pros are stiffer; does this translate to a noticeable difference in leg-strength used? Lastly, from what I've read, the Originals seem to be better on the surface (i.e. snorkeling). Is this true?

I realize these are strange questions for our sport, but hey it's a diverse planet, and so we must adapt to all situations. This trip is posing some interesting challenges, and any help that you guys/gals could give me would be much appreciated.

Thanks!!!

 

[meesier42]

nothing strange about the questions,
I'll start with the easy parts, For a Original/Pro (XL) the fin max width is 12" and length 17" weight just under 3# per pair.
The adjustable will be a little heavier, not sure by how much, I don't have a pair handy.
The comfort insteps are great, They easily allow you to take your fins from fitting your bootie to barefoot, and the foot pocket is more comfortable with the instep than they are without.

For snorkeling, the Original is normally better due to its flexibility. The increased flex tends to help keep the blade underwater. The Pro is normally better for diving as it can provide more trust.

As for stiffness, your legs aren't going to really notice the stiffness, the difference is more in how hard you can push them. The Originals have a maximum thrust of level 1, the Pro can go to level 2. To apply numbers to this, The Originals averages 33# and the Pro being 38# for static thrust. For comparison Atomic Splits average about 1# lower than the Pros, and I only have 1 data point for the TwinJet Max and they were 4# below the Pro, 1# better than the Original.

Do I think you will dump your TwinJets, well maybe... if you spend enough time with your ForceFins, you'll probably put your old fins on and wonder what you have been thinking and toss the old things away.

oh and Viequez is awesome, you'll wish you had your dive gear

 

[VaScubalee]

Thanks Meesier42, and don't worry. I will do some diving in Viequez. Any suggestions on who I should talk to when I ferry over there? My biggest worry is finding quality dive shops with quality gear, since I will be renting. Also, what's a can't miss dive spot, since I will probably only get in one or two dives on Viequez? We are going in February next year, because that's when the whales are supposed to be around, so I'll definitely be diving around Desecheo!!! I'm pumped for this trip, and your answers were exactly what I needed. At 3 lbs. a pair, looks like I'll be getting some FFs. Thanks!!!

 

[meesier42]

shops in Vieques, umm.... I don't even remember if it was Culebra or Vieques, it was xmas time a couple of years back and the water and conditions were fantastic. sorry I can't help you with the shops.

oh for size, I am a wide 13, so I have plenty of experience to tell you, A 13 foot will "barely" fit in a Large and probably cause you pain after a while. The XL is wider and with the comfort instep will be very comfortable for a long time, plus you can then take the insteps out and put your 3mm booties on and dive cooler water as well. beware- thick soled 13+ booties will likely not fit in the XL, thin soled and neoprene socks are perfect.

 

[sibermike7]

shops in Vieques, umm.... I don't even remember if it was Culebra or Vieques, it was xmas time a couple of years back and the water and conditions were fantastic. sorry I can't help you with the shops.

oh for size, I am a wide 13, so I have plenty of experience to tell you, A 13 foot will "barely" fit in a Large and probably cause you pain after a while. The XL is wider and with the comfort instep will be very comfortable for a long time, plus you can then take the insteps out and put your 3mm booties on and dive cooler water as well. beware- thick soled 13+ booties will likely not fit in the XL, thin soled and neoprene socks are perfect.

Minimum size will be an XL for sure. For me, (11 W-I-D-E) I fit almost too snugly into XL with my booties. No problem after a few minutes wet, but I sure wouldn't want to go any smaller. Personally, I think I'd stick to the Pros. You can use them on surface with a little practice (my kids use mine all the time) and they are great for scuba.

In fact, my 11 year old loves my fins so much that he has been scouring the internet to find a deal so he can spend his saved birthday and Christmas money on his own pair!!

So, are you going to be diving with or w/o booties? You see, Bob makes these fins all the way up to XXXL. He makes them big enough to put your foot into even with your shoes on!

Are you close to a place to try some on? If so, do it! One word of caution: Give Force Fins a honest and thorough chance. When you first begin to use them, you'll think that they aren't "doing" anything because they feel SOOOO good! Try them out in a pool with visual reference points and you'll be amazed out how well they "perform". Check out the ForceFin website and watch the videos to get a better idea about how to use these fins. You'll be glad you did.

One more thing, I highly recommend yellow (neon). Especially if you are going to be around non-divers. At first sight they may laugh at you, but you'll be able to be seen a long ways down from the surface. They should be able to observe your underwater progress.

PS. Почему ты думал бы, что кто-то даже поняли бы Ž«приветŽ»?

 

[meesier42]

VAscubalee
since you seem intend on having data points, the numbers I posted earlier are an average of about 20 divers, collected over about 6 years. My personal numbers are well above average and I can quote others for you.
My numbers.
Pro FF-51#
Excellerating TanDelta- 59#
Extra TanDelta- 64#

Others??
Jets- 48# (real Beauchat Jets, not SP)
Mor-fins-38#
No fins- 29#
Cressi Gara 2000- 55#
Atomic Splits- 49#

 

[VaScubalee]

Minimum size will be an XL for sure. For me, (11 W-I-D-E) I fit almost too snugly into XL with my booties. No problem after a few minutes wet, but I sure wouldn't want to go any smaller. Personally, I think I'd stick to the Pros. You can use them on surface with a little practice (my kids use mine all the time) and they are great for scuba.

If I'm reading the Navy's findings correctly off the Force Fin website, it appears that the Original is much more efficient than the Pros. What's better about the Pros?

So, are you going to be diving with or w/o booties?

Probably w/o in Puerto Rico, but definitely with 5mm when I am around here.

Are you close to a place to try some on?

I wish! My LDS doesn't carry them, and a search on the internet produced nothing.

One word of caution: Give Force Fins a honest and thorough chance.

I give everything in life a honest and thorough chance. I started diving on a whim in the first place (old girlfriend is a marine bio major), and loved it from the first moment! I'd never even been snorkeling before that. If you don't try new things, you might be missing something great.

Check out the ForceFin website and watch the videos to get a better idea about how to use these fins. You'll be glad you did.

I checked out the vids on the website. Interesting. The divers seemed to be moving easily through the water. Do the Pros work well in a current?

One more thing, I highly recommend yellow (neon). Especially if you are going to be around non-divers. At first sight they may laugh at you, but you'll be able to be seen a long ways down from the surface. They should be able to observe your underwater progress.

Don't worry, I won't be diving alone. None of my friends will be, but I'll go with a group and dive master. I'm still too new at this to be going solo, and I don't know the currents of Puerto Rico, since this will be my first trip there. I appreciate the advice though; those are words that could save a life! And I probably would go with the yellow, because although blue is my favorite color, it's the same as water, so I'd probably be invisible. And black is just as invisible underwater around where I live. That's why my snorkel is yellow!

PS. Почему ты думал бы, что кто-то даже поняли бы Ž«приветŽ»?

I wasn't sure if anyone would, but like I said it's all about new things. I'm just learning Русский язык myself, because of some friends I met last summer. I figured, since we're already on the internet, anyone who wanted to know what it meant is only one search away. Спасибо!

 

[sibermike7]

If I'm reading the Navy's findings correctly off the Force Fin website, it appears that the Original is much more efficient than the Pros. What's better about the Pros?

The Pros have a more efficient "snap" than the originals. The originals are "softer" so for sports like tubing, the allow the fisherman to make minute adjustments with little energy expended. However, as the Pros are a little bit stiffer, they provide a smidge more thrust. Of course, that is just the beginning of the Force Fin adventure. You can work your way up through the line with progressively "snappier" fins or with more doo-dads!

The Tan Delta material will make the fin "snappier" or you can go with the excels or extras. But since you are just getting started, I think I would go with the Pros, but that is my opinion. I would follow Meesier's suggestion about getting the right size to work with an instep for barefoot. You can remove it quite easily to put on the booties too.

I wish! My LDS doesn't carry them, and a search on the internet produced nothing.

Anybody know someone in VA Beach with Force Fins??

Do the Pros work well in a current?

I have yet to meet anyone that can leave me in the dust. (Course, there ain't much dust underwater!) I don't say that to brag either, just the opposite. I have horrible knees from too much crazy living years ago and some medical procedures, yet my smart-aleck Marine son, could barely keep up with me at Catalina with his Jets. He would work really hard and pull ahead, but I just relaxed and by the end of the dive I had to continually pause to allow him to stay with me. It wasn't me, it was the fins!!

And this happens all the time.

 

[sibermike7]

Hey why don't you go visit Meesier? He is in Maryland, what 2-4 hours away? i would! You might even be able to talk him into showing you his collection. He will probably be pretty reluctant, but with a little persuasion, ...

 

[meesier42]

Hey why don't you go visit Meesier? He is in Maryland, what 2-4 hours away? i would! You might even be able to talk him into showing you his collection. He will probably be pretty reluctant, but with a little persuasion, ...

it wouldn't take any persuasion at all. if only the local quarry, or even Lake Rawlings was open this time of year. If you want to try them out let me know, I have a large collection and would be glad to let you use them, just need to find a place. There are a ton of pools in this area to play. send me a PM and we'll work something out

as for efficiency of the Pro vs Original- the graph is very hard to fully understand without the entire write up of the study (>200 pages). So I will try to elaborate the information some. First the only points that are of any real value are to the far right and left. From the far left, you can see, at slow speeds it doesn't matter what fins you wear, there is no appreicable difference in VO2, or oxygen consumption.(really there is no appreciable difference on the entire graph, all of these are really minor, and only the BEST fins EVER TESTED are represented) The mid points are basically worthless, because the size of the study group was not consistent, as the speeds came up, more and more divers dropped out, or were at absolute exhaustion to complete the effort, this is why the lines cross 2 and 3 times each and change direction, (go from increasing O2 consumption to decreasing, really how can you go faster and use LESS O2, with any fin). The far right you again see a consistent study group. On the far right you can see that the PRO was the lowest O2 consumed, followed by Fin "F" then the Original, then Fin "A". So for well trained althetes that can sustain this high level of output the PRO was a better fin, for 90% of people the Original was better.

I believe this coorelates with what I have said.
First, that the Original and the Pro have different levels of maximum output, you can see at all speeds except the top speed the Original was better, the highest top speed basically exceeded the top end of the Original and the divers really had to "blow out" to acheive the speed, but the Pro keep clicking along.
Second, For many people, e.g. nearly all non-competitive swimmers the Original is a better fin. BUT... that isn't the whole story. I generally say "Most Scuba Divers Prefer the Pro", but at the same time, I have convinced many divers to buy the Originals. I believe that many people prefer the Pros because of the increased "snap", since nearly all of us rarely, if ever, are really kicking continuously or trying to attain these speeds, so long term efficiency isn't the final answer. Since most of us, including me, use a kick and glide approach to diving, the increased stiffness and higher snap has more value and skews most towards the Pro.

as for a current- well, yes, everything in the ForceFin line is better than literally EVERY fin I have every tried in a current. As you have already seen, the fin is very efficient, matching efficiency with the best fins available. So that is part one of the answer, very efficient fins mean that you will maintain the required speed with less tiring than less efficient fins. Part two of the answer- this is the part that makes the ForceFin line heads and tails better, The patented foot pocket combined with the flex of the material and the shape of the blade means that you will transfer power to the fin from your abs, quads, and gluts, then allow them to relax some on the recovery stroke (very weak part of your kick). This inturn means that you are harnessing power from very large muscle groups, and since the load is equal to other fins, that means larger muscles groups don't work as hard to maintain the same output power. That means lower lactic acid production, less cramping, more comfort and better air consumption. In comparision to other fins that harrness power primarily from the calves, knees and hamstrings, see the truth about dive fins to prove this to yourself.