Negligent Instructor?

[wolf eel]

[Show me one post on here that anyone said that that solo diving is wrong, This topic is about courts in the USA and a jury might see a solo card as a key of entry.]

I do not understand your attitude. I am not saying that anybody did again read what I have said.

I never ever said solo diving was wrong. In a court room somebody would say that solo diving is wrong because of how the companies have protraide solo diving. In my defence I would explain how diving has evolved un like people. Please never be a defence lawyer what I said was easy to understand.

[Trolling]

Why are you allways Trolling for anger from me ? You again need to read what I said with a clear head. You have some good points but if I was in court with you it would be a easy win.

Solo diving in the courts is viewed as a dangerous activity that by almost all standards is wrong to do. So as you said THE "KEY" is a course with out that you would be open for law suit with it you have shown you can dive solo. So any park or instructor would be free from a suit given that the student passed and the course was not a joke. How could any body be sued. The only time then would be if a diver showed up without is "S" card ("S" solo dive card) and was allowed to dive then you would be in loads of crap and law suits would fly. If a course does have students and is reconized by the industry then it would have to accepted by the courts as we have no laws saying you can not teach Solo diving and what is requiered to do so. think about it. I dive on an average of about ten dives a month solo so what the hell.

Cheers
Derek

 

[PRL]

Derek,
1)Solo cert is NOT accepted by the dive industry as a standard (thats the whole point)

2)We are Not talking about courts trying to prove that solo diving is wrong. We are talking about a view based on the case I presented that the instructor can be sued for negligence because he did NOT follow majority of the dive industry standards. If you read the civil law in US about negligence, you will see where there could be a problem.
Just because SDI offers the course it doesn't make it a standard. And just because an employer or an agency tells you to do something,it doesn't make you imune to responsibility for that action. Right and wrong works in criminal court but does not work in civil court.

3) A log book is accepted by the dive industry as PROOF of experience and can be accredited for advanced training resulting in an advanced C-card even WITHOUT a OW C-card. Also a Log Book would be accepted in a court as evidence and a statement that anyone can falsify a log book is not enough to discredit the evidence unless you can prove that THIS log book was falsified or the pearson that kept the log book has a history of falsifying documents. It is the owners responsibility to keep an accurate log

4)On one topic you did not attack my opinion but me personally (I did see the post before it was removed by mods) No love lost

 

[novadiver]

Derek,
1)Solo cert is NOT accepted by the dive industry as a standard (thats the whole point)

2)We are Not talking about courts trying to prove that solo diving is wrong. We are talking about a view based on the case I presented that the instructor can be sued for negligence because he did NOT follow majority of the dive industry standards. If you read the civil law in US about negligence, you will see where there could be a problem.
Just because SDI offers the course it doesn't make it a standard. And just because an employer or an agency tells you to do something,it doesn't make you imune to responsibility for that action. Right and wrong works in criminal court but does not work in civil c

3) A log book is accepted by the dive industry as PROOF of experience and can be accredited for advanced training resulting in an advanced C-card even WITHOUT a OW C-card. Also a Log Book would be accepted in a court as evidence and a statement that anyone can falsify a log book is not enough to discredit the evidence unless you can prove that THIS log book was falsified or the pearson that kept the log book has a history of falsifying documents. It is the owners responsibility to keep an accurate log

4)On one topic you did not attack my opinion but me personally (I did see the post before it was removed by mods) No love lost

PRL the only standard in the scuba industry is the need for water. that water does not have to be clear or warm.there is no standard gear, There is no standard training (padi VS. gue)

The most any boat opperater can do is refuse to honer a C-card that they feel will endanger any diver.

The solo C-card does not have to be the standard of the dive industry, only the standard in training for SDI. If you don't agree with this post , that's not a real supprise . there just isn't a standard to agree on scuba board.

I have the SDI solo cert in question , so I've taken the training, I feel safe . and that's the only standard I need.

 

[PRL]

PRL the only standard in the scuba industry is the need for water.

Hmmm. So the fact that a rec diver can look at a main stream gear regardles of the manufacturer and be able to put it together and dive it, expecting for the inflator hose to be on the left side, regs on the right, right hand weight release etc. That would not be a standard? The fact that you expect a DM regardles of certifying agency to have certain duties and responsibilities. That wouldnt be a standard as well? When you travel abroad for your dream scuba vacation, do you not expect certain accomodations and procedures?
The fact that main stream agencies cooperate to set minimum training STANDARDS and other diving procedures is not a standard eather?

I'm Lost.

Truth is that scuba industry has many standards to make diving what it is today. With out those standards diving would be much more dangerous, and alot less accesible to the general public.
Organizations such as DAN would not be able to function.
What is amaizing is that those standards are self regulated and main stream agencies do an "O.K." job (not great but ok) if they didn't than many governments, activists, and idiots would step in and try to run the industry for us with rediculous rules and STANDARDS. This still might happen because diving bussiness is gaining popularity and if a government can control it, than there is revenue to be made.
You might not agree with this post, but that wouldn't suprise me either

 

[wolf eel]

[3) A log book is accepted by the dive industry as PROOF of experience and can be accredited for advanced training resulting in an advanced C-card even WITHOUT a OW C-card. Also a Log Book would be accepted in a court as evidence and a statement that anyone can falsify a log book is not enough to discredit the evidence unless you can prove that THIS log book was falsified or the pearson that kept the log book has a history of falsifying documents. It is the owners responsibility to keep an accurate log]

You have no idea as to what you are talking about. The log book has been in question several thousend times in the courts. With out a C card you would lose in court if it was not produced any moron can buy a degree from the internet but with out proof you stood in front of an instructor then you would not be allowed to operate on my left nut. Hence if you should go to a dive site that is properly operated as a Solo dive site and you did not have your "S" card to prove but had a log book the operator could be sued for neg but if you had your card and logs then you would lose in a court for sure. You would have no defence. If I taught you how to pick your nose with your left hand ( as a nose picking instructor ) and showed you how to do this all wrong then I am open for a law suit anything you do as an instructor where you do not follow protacol and do not teach as you are requiered then you are open for a law suit. And you will lose. Also if you showed up and wanted to take a rescue course but could only produce a log book would you be allowed to take the course ?

Truck drivers require a log book are you going to tell me they never add sleep time and such to their log books ?

You must be very new to diving if you believe your log books are golden like really new. To prove they are fake is easy who where, when. Also the LDS would have knowledge of you it would be sooooo easy to win a case based on a log book.

[4)On one topic you did not attack my opinion but me personally (I did see the post before it was removed by mods) No love lost]

As for your comments above I did not attack you. You attack me you D--- -- S. I was defending myself from your nonsense.
I know you did read it good. I only attack your opinion because it seems way out there at times. So if I respond stop and realize I have not attack you but had an opinion about what you had said even if it is a little silly. You only removed yours so others would not be able to read what you had said or you had somebody read yours and tell you how they came across which ever I left mine because I said nothing I would not say again.

Cheers
Derek

 

[wolf eel]

[I'm Lost.]

No doubt.

[ Truth is that scuba industry has many standards to make diving what it is today. With out those standards diving would be much more dangerous, and alot less accesible to the general public.]

I would agree with you and so would my Dad as he is one of the founders of A.C.U.C. Winter peg airbase he has first minutes to prove it if you wish.

also the standards is what the courts would listen to and every agency would show up and shout that we do not think solo diving is safe and so on.

[This still might happen because diving bussiness is gaining popularity and if a government can control it, than there is revenue to be made.]

Just to let you know the diving industry is nothing comparde to what it was when I started thirty years ago. (29) there is less and less people getting involved.

In 1990 if a tool fell from a dock you would have ten divers in the water before it hit the bottom today it sits for a week.

I believe in Solo diving, mixed gas diving, deep diving, night, cave diving. i do not believe in Bull ---- diving.

Cheers
Derek

 

[PRL]

I would agree with you and so would my Dad as he is one of the founders of A.C.U.C. Winter peg airbase he has first minutes to prove it if you wish.

also the standards is what the courts would listen to and every agency would show up and shout that we do not think solo diving is safe and so on.

Wow, we found something to agree about

I believe in Solo diving, mixed gas diving, deep diving, night, cave diving. i do not believe in Bull ---- diving.

Same here (thats two LOL) but to enjoy the above, usually we have to deal with Bull----diving

 

[PRL]

You have no idea as to what you are talking about.......... but with out proof you stood in front of an instructor then you would not be allowed to operate on my left nut.

I was about to Quote an Instructor manual text about log book as Proof of training, but it seems that you know everything so look it up.

As for your comments above I did not attack you.

What was it that you called me before your post was removed? you were defending your self? from what, my opinions? The fact that I don't agree with you?
When you start insulting me that would be an attack on me, not my opinions

It seems that you have no clue what you are talking about and are just seeking attention.

Well you won't get it from me anymore.

This topic again went to sh-t and you will have to forgive me Derek that I will not look back here and look at your nonsense

 

[wolf eel]

[I was about to Quote an Instructor manual text about log book as Proof of training, but it seems that you know everything so look it up.]

Look again. It is used as a way to get more tickets not as a ticket. Your log book has no use with out your "C" card. looks great but with out the card you have NO way of knowing whether or not a person has taken a course. Just that you have excellent writing skills. As for knowing everything not likley look at my spelling. LOL

[What was it that you called me before your post was removed? you were defending your self? from what, my opinions? The fact that I don't agree with you?
When you start insulting me that would be an attack on me, not my opinions]

What ??????? you should read your statments before you say something like this.

[It seems that you have no clue what you are talking about and are just seeking attention.]

I love it when others use the power to look like the sorry one for everybody to feel bad. The one who gets the black eye is allways seen as the one who deserves sympathy.

[This topic again went to sh-t and you will have to forgive me Derek that I will not look back here and look at your nonsense]

It went to crap as I ended up defending myself again instead of being apart of the topic I again became the topic. I feel bad for the other people who liked the topic.

As for ACUC I still do not understand how we agree ????

Cheers
Derek

 

[RUFUST]

Are there any Pilots in the group who can tell us how law relates to them and their instructors.The high light of a pilots training is to "SOLO".I have a dive freind totally against SOLO diving but he flys his Piper Cub alone all the time.HHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMM which has more potential for damage when we have the problems (?) we all hear about?