New to DH - questions on safety or reliability when using DH setup

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I switched to a twin hose a couple of years ago (A new mistral, considered by most to be quite a bad twin hose and not to be confused with the excellent "old" single stage mistral) , and have been diving it once or twice a week ever since. So far I would say it has been as reliable if not more so than my old Coustau Micra single hose.

My setup is pretty much standard diving fare with the exception that I have two hoses running across my shoulder instead of one. My octopus is just a standard scubapro octopus, my BC is just an old buddy pioneer (Dosent give ideal performance but it does the job) and I have a bog standard scuba-pro console.

Its not the optimal twin hose setup but it does the job. Ive had it down to 32m, dived it under ice and spent 3 hours lifting scrap metal from a river in zero vis and heavy current and its never let me down! Recently I even attached it to a full face mask, ive not found anything a single hose can do that my twin hose cant do as good as or better :D

Since i dive as part of a club im lucky ive never really had any problems, generally people find it quite interesting once they realise im not on a re-breather with the new mistrals huge hoses :D When i bought the reg i had it in the pool and tried doing some buddy breathing with it, once i got the hang of it and my buddies got over their fear of it buddy breathing was remarkably simple. Since there is no up or down with the mouthpiece it was just a case of handing it over, by sitting slightly lower than my buddy the reg purged its self and made the reg breathe slightly positive for my buddy which made their own reg feel like it was performing terribly by comparison!

For max flexibility a phoenix is definitely a great option and i plan on upgrading to one just as soon as i can rake in some cash :D
 
Herman did a very good job of explaining all the differences and advantages so I don't have much to add except that if I were going to be exclusively diving a double hose regulator, I would probably be diving a DA Aquamaster with a Phoenix nozzle. I love the simplicity of the Mistral too but in my opinion it's not an ideal travel regulator for several reasons.

I only recently started rebuilding and diving double hose regulators. I now own 4 of them and have rebuilt several for other people; It's an addiction once you get started.

I started out with a Mistral because they are by far the easiest regulators to rebuild and service. They really are bullet proof but they do have some downsides. Because there are no LP ports you can't attach an octopus or a LP inflator. A lot of dive shops are not going to like this even if you are comfortable with it.

Additionally, a banjo fitting is not going to work on every single tank valve. Also, your Mistral will require a long yoke adapter in order to accommodate a banjo fitting. You need to make sure if you buy a Mistral it already comes with one or you will have to buy one and attach it.

You can, and probably will run into situations where the type of yoke valve you're using is going to be too large to accommodate the Mistral's long yoke adapter and the banjo fitting. The banjo fitting is not going to work on every tank valve; One example being DIN/Yoke convertible valves being that are starting to become more and more common so unless you're traveling with your own tanks, this is always going to be a concern.

While I love diving with my Mistral, it is not always practical for me to dive it since most of dives around here are in a drysuit until the water warms up.

Finally, the Mistral is unbalanced, upstream design. It was designed in an era where HP tanks were not very common. While you can use certainly use a Mistral with an AL80, it will breath very poorly until the tank has approximately 1500psi in it. The Mistral breathes better as the tank pressure is lower. Because of the unbalanced design it does not favor high pressure tanks. Using a Mistral with HP tanks (especially over 3000psi) can and will damage the HP seat and it will breath like crap. It is not recommended. The highest most people will comfortably use a Mistral with is 3000psi, even still some people don't recommend that. The Mistral works better with low pressure tanks.

The next best choice would a DA Aquamaster, which is still an unbalanced design and does not like higher tank pressures. In this regulator because of it's unbalanced design, the IP will slowly increase as the tank pressure drops. The advantage of using a DA Aquamaster is that you can convert the hooka port to a LP port so that you can attach a LP inflator for your BCD or drysuit and run an octopus off it for easier buddy breathing. Some dive charters require an octopus.

Also, you are going to have the same issues with a banjo fitting on the DA Aquamaster since the banjo will not work with every rental tank.

Finally, the best of all worlds is going to be a Phoenix (That is, a converted Royal Aquamaster or DA Aquamaster) with a Phoenix nozzle. Since the Phoenix is a fully balanced design, you can happily use it on high pressure tanks. The Yoke is designed to physically handle higher pressures. Unlike the Mistral and DA Aquamaster, it doesn't matter what pressure you use a Phoenix with, it will breath the same on all tank pressures.

Since the Phoenix nozzle has HP and LP ports, you can use it with an octopus, and attach LP inflators for your BCD and/or drysuit. Lastly, since the Phoenix has integrated HP ports, you can use it with a pressure gauge/SPG and not have to worry about using the banjo adapter.
 
Excellent information, thanks Macado, Jerry,flint. This definitely is what I needed to know regarding the Phoenix. I went ahead and ordered a DA Aquamaster from Dan (a 1962'-63' SN model), and am super excited to try it out. I had originally planned on just using the banjo fitting for my SPG, but I'll instead just put the cash into the Phoenix because I need this reg to be compatible with every tank I come across. Now to get the Phoenix ordered...and determine if it's blasphemy to powder coat the housing instead of polishing it :)


Herman did a very good job of explaining all the differences and advantages so I don't have much to add except that if I were going to be exclusively diving a double hose regulator, I would probably be diving a DA Aquamaster with a Phoenix nozzle. I love the simplicity of the Mistral too but in my opinion it's not an ideal travel regulator for several reasons.

I only recently started rebuilding and diving double hose regulators. I now own 4 of them and have rebuilt several for other people; It's an addiction once you get started.

I started out with a Mistral because they are by far the easiest regulators to rebuild and service. They really are bullet proof but they do have some downsides. Because there are no LP ports you can't attach an octopus or a LP inflator. A lot of dive shops are not going to like this even if you are comfortable with it.

Additionally, a banjo fitting is not going to work on every single tank valve. Also, your Mistral will require a long yoke adapter in order to accommodate a banjo fitting. You need to make sure if you buy a Mistral it already comes with one or you will have to buy one and attach it.

You can, and probably will run into situations where the type of yoke valve you're using is going to be too large to accommodate the Mistral's long yoke adapter and the banjo fitting. The banjo fitting is not going to work on every tank valve; One example being DIN/Yoke convertible valves being that are starting to become more and more common so unless you're traveling with your own tanks, this is always going to be a concern.

While I love diving with my Mistral, it is not always practical for me to dive it since most of dives around here are in a drysuit until the water warms up.

Finally, the Mistral is unbalanced, upstream design. It was designed in an era where HP tanks were not very common. While you can use certainly use a Mistral with an AL80, it will breath very poorly until the tank has approximately 1500psi in it. The Mistral breathes better as the tank pressure is lower. Because of the unbalanced design it does not favor high pressure tanks. Using a Mistral with HP tanks (especially over 3000psi) can and will damage the HP seat and it will breath like crap. It is not recommended. The highest most people will comfortably use a Mistral with is 3000psi, even still some people don't recommend that. The Mistral works better with low pressure tanks.

The next best choice would a DA Aquamaster, which is still an unbalanced design and does not like higher tank pressures. In this regulator because of it's unbalanced design, the IP will slowly increase as the tank pressure drops. The advantage of using a DA Aquamaster is that you can convert the hooka port to a LP port so that you can attach a LP inflator for your BCD or drysuit and run an octopus off it for easier buddy breathing. Some dive charters require an octopus.

Also, you are going to have the same issues with a banjo fitting on the DA Aquamaster since the banjo will not work with every rental tank.

Finally, the best of all worlds is going to be a Phoenix (That is, a converted Royal Aquamaster or DA Aquamaster) with a Phoenix nozzle. Since the Phoenix is a fully balanced design, you can happily use it on high pressure tanks. The Yoke is designed to physically handle higher pressures. Unlike the Mistral and DA Aquamaster, it doesn't matter what pressure you use a Phoenix with, it will breath the same on all tank pressures.

Since the Phoenix nozzle has HP and LP ports, you can use it with an octopus, and attach LP inflators for your BCD and/or drysuit. Lastly, since the Phoenix has integrated HP ports, you can use it with a pressure gauge/SPG and not have to worry about using the banjo adapter.
 
---------- Post added May 4th, 2012 at 01:01 PM ----------

[/COLOR]I agree with the opinions that a two stage (DA or equivalent) is a more preferable way to go. It does provide the flexibility to go with the flow; a BC which for 99% of the dive boats is a necessary evil and when outfitted with a octo or as I prefer a breathable inflator (like the Aqualung Airsource) you may just save a post DH life. I use a SeaQuest Balance BC it has back inflation which I prefer. Look for the older style with the velcro weight pockets it will be cheaper plus it is light and it will let you get the reg down low in the center of you upper back where it needs to be. Another thing to consider, if your on a drift dive you may be waiting for the boat for 10-20 min positive buoyancy might be nice.

---------- Post added May 7th, 2012 at 08:52 PM ----------

Well I did not see this update. A new Phoenix smart move. And powder coating,,,,,, that might be nice.
 
I find a horsecollar BC works best for me when I have to use a BC with my DH regs. I've tried them with a back inflate and they did not work as well for me. I also have a steel 85 tank with an H valve that I have used in situations where I have to provide all the modern conveniences. I just add a 1970's vintage Aquarius to the other post on the H valve and I have Octo, SPG, and inflator hose.
 
While waiting for the latest batch of phoenix nozzles (arriving soon!), may I suggest an HPR 2nd stage as well in your current unbalanced DAAM? There's oodles of positive feedback so far from the early users.

Now to get the Phoenix ordered...and determine if it's blasphemy to powder coat the housing instead of polishing it :)

Not blasphemous at all :wink: Here's my 2nd PRAM made into an FX non-mag.

FXnonmag.jpg



PRAMnonmag.jpg
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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