Newbie stupid question of the day . . 1st Stages

[BettyRubble]

I want to thank everyone for the great info. Thorough as usual, exactly what I hoped for. I'll chew on it.

To address some of the questions raised:

1) AI because I like the idea of having better tracking of my sac rate. I currently track start/end psi but like having more detailed data. Also, I check my spg frequently. I'm anal about it. But it annoys me to always have to look down and tilt it (it's clipped to my chest). Like the idea of the psi being on my computer which I also check frequently.

2) Fortunate to have acquired a good deal of equipment including a loaned set of steel tanks that I use frequently. I'm down to buying dry bags and knives - LOL which I ordered this week. So not much left to add (yeah right!)

Thanks again for the help!

 

[ScubaDocER]

Betty,

With over 4,000 posts, you may have to drop the "Newbie" moniker. I would suggest newly seasoned

To address your question:

I too have an AI computer and I agree with NetDoc. I LOVE mine!! It is extremely convenient and allows me the freedom to do other things (photography, videography) with ease. I have the Aeris Datamask (HUD). As you have discovered, you will need 2 HP ports to keep your original SPG and the transmitter both connected. I have an Apeks reg and love those as well. The 1st stages (Apeks XTX 50 and 200) have the 2 HP ports I desire and allow me to just add a transmitter and not take away an SPG hose. I just glance to the right in my mask and I have all of the information I need. Computers are very convenient tools that are designed to make our diving a little easier and a lot more enjoyable. My suggestion is to get the AI. You'll love it. I would add as a stipulation though that you dive with a bottom timer and a depth gauge in case the AI computer fails (battery dies, floods, etc.) I wear a Citizens HyperAqualand watch. Tracks depth and time. This way you have redundancy in depth, time, and tank pressure without cluttering your gear configuration. I agree with a previous poster who commented that the Apeks are within your price range. I am very happy with mine.

With regard to the DIN vs Yoke issue. The posters in the Regulator section on SB do an outstanding job of discussing the differences between these and I would suggest a stroll through their posts. My personal experience is that I have not had a problem with either. Since you seem very motivated to expand your diving experiences and education I would suggest DIN. Not that there is anything wrong with yoke, but most of the tech divers I know (wreck, cave, etc.) all use DIN connections. If you find yourself headed down that path, then you wont need to change that connection. A yoke adapter is an easy thing to throw in your reg bag for a trip. I use one when I travel to the Caribbean all the time. To me, it is easier to go from a DIN to yoke setup than it is from a yoke to DIN. The DIN plus yoke adapter will give you more flexibility.

Let us know what you decide.

 

[Killer&Griller]

I don't know, I don't have any "new" AL cylinders. I also doubt that any dive operator where people normally go on vacation is going to have any "new" cylinders either. Reference post by DOC Intreped above.

My point, clearly not clear, was that steels usually come w/ a pro valve that can be either din or yoke. "unless she was diving just AL" is the connotation.

Maybe if you buy a realitively new regulator like the Sherwood SR1, but if you buy an older tried and true like a ScubaPro Mk 10/G-250 than probably not. I picked up a Kerby Morgan Superflow 350 for close 50% of the retail price and with parts and service it is still nowhere near the new cost.

Guess it depends on the brand. With Oceanic, DR, Atomic, Mares, etc you can roll out every year or so and still come out in the 20% range.

Warranty? Dude there only good for the first year after you purchase the regulator. Unless you get one of those "parts for life" regulators, what difference does it make?

Again, depends on brand. As another example, Oceanic warranties for 2 years, so does Mares, Dive Rite, Atomic, etc.

Dude, as for the "parts for life" regs like Oceanic, DR, Atomic, etc......... figure that in and you can roll in and out of most brands with the 10% - 20% every year or two before a model change. Clearly you have to do is shop it up front and not pay anywhere close to MSRP...... not that hard on the net though.

Are you going to buy a new regulator every year? Not me. Most of mine are over 20 years old and work just fine.

I didn't say someone had too, I said they could. As for getting one every year, I do change, could be 3 months or 2 years. I like trying different products and if I can dive one for a year and then only loose a couple of bucks, why not? Then again, I like having gear covered under warranty for those "what if" situations.

Different strokes........... Glad to hear your older gear is meeting all of your requirements. :beer:

 

[RonFrank]

Hi Betty, how is Barney?

AI First. It is wonderful. My Aeris Epic has NEVER lost connection on a dive that I have noticed in over two years. My buddy has a similar experience with an Oceanic unit that is over 5 years old.. just make sure to carry extra batteries for both computer, and transmitter. Carry a backup SPG, but it is NOT neccessary to have it attached to the first. If the transmitter dies, than swop the transmitter for the HP hose of the SPG. BTW, my SPG is LESS accurate vs. my AI reading.

If you are convinced you NEED a new first stage, the Zeagle 50D is a great first stage with two HP ports. But IMO spend the money on DIVING, not more stuff.

As 95% of the world dives Yoke, and burst disks are not popping out all over the planet, I'd forget the entire burst disk argument. Put it out of your mind, the percentage of blown burst disks is VERY small, and more likely to happen right out of the factory.

Tanks and valves are TWO separate things. You can buy DIN tank valves, and Yoke tank valves, and they both work on the majority of tanks out there.

DIN.. why in the heck to you need DIN? The ENTIRE world dives Yoke with the exception of the 5%~ of tech divers who think the entire scuba industry is smoking crack by not following their rigid standards. If you do go DIN, then plan on a DIN~Yoke converter as MOST resort destinations do NOT have DIN available. Some may, but those also tend to be the high end tech OP's, and if you don't have doubles, and a BP/W, they may look at you cross-eyed!

You are WAY over-thinking this entire thing fueled by a very vocal group on SB that even if they are NOT tech, either want to be, or are convinced that is the way to go. IMO, if you plan on doubles, and caves, sure start on a tech setup. If you just like to dive, and do NOT plan on doing Advanced Nitrox and Deco as an entry in to things like Cavern/Cave training, skip the entire tech mentality. Funny how all these dire hard gauge mode only type divers seem to embrace the technology that made diving possible, but only to some wall defined by a bunch of hard cores out of the 70's.. sigh...

I LOVE my AI computer. It is one of my favorite hunks of plastic!

 

[Doubler]

Betty R,
I dive a Atomic Z2 with a AI and a SPG. I have had a AI fail during the dive so I have another console with an SPG and a puck computer. Stop worrying about the Oring. I noted you said you travel to dive, I am just speaking for myself here and others may know better than I, but I have never seen a DIN connector tank valve on any of the liveaboards I have ever been on. I have seen divers use DIN connectors but with adapters which means you still have the same issue you are worried about. Just my 2 cents.

 

[N2DeepInAz]

Betty,

Seems like you and I have the same thought process. Albeit, I'm not too worried about blown o-rings as I am electronic equipment failure at depth. I try to be as redundant as I can without having to completely rely on a buddy who I may or may not know.

With that being said, I dive a wireless AI Oceanic Atom 2.0 off my left HP port and for backup a Tusa Element off the right HP port of my Legend LX rig. With almost 100 dives since I started diving 4 months ago, I've never had a failure with either, but I've seen it happen to other divers who solely rely on just their wireless AI.

Quick story about that. Dove with a local DM and halfway through the dive he did an aircheck with me and then showed me his computer had stopped working. We finished the dive without incident as he was diving a steel 100 to my al80. On the surface we found that his transmitter battery had died just shortly after the dive, so he had no idea how much air he had left after he'd checked it when it worked last.

That incident sold me on dive computer redundancy. And if you can afford it then it's a nice piece of equipment to have. I think you'll enjoy it and if it gives you peace of mind then you'll feel more comfortable in the water and probably have more fun diving. That's the effect it had on me.

Either way good luck in your decision. Just my own experiences.

 

[HenrikBP]

BTW, my SPG is LESS accurate vs. my AI reading.

I realize this is a side-track: do we know for sure the AI is more accurate? Or are the electronics just giving us more digits making us *think* it's more accurate?

Henrik

 

[iztok]

Hog First Stage D1 Cold

Only $170

 

[Druid]

I like AI and use a wireless transmitter on the right hand cylinder of my twinset, with an analogue SPG on the left. It's so much easier to be able to check my air, depth and bottom time all on the same instrument.

As you have discovered, you will need 2 HP ports to keep your original SPG and the transmitter both connected. I have an Apeks reg and love those as well. The 1st stages (Apeks XTX 50 and 200) have the 2 HP ports I desire and allow me to just add a transmitter and not take away an SPG hose.

If you decide to buy Apeks, be aware that the DS4 first stage that is sometimes supplied with the XTX40 & 50 has only one HP port. The DST first stage has 2 HP ports, as do the FST and FSR first stages supplied with the ATX/XTX 100 and 200.

DIN.. why in the heck to you need DIN? The ENTIRE world dives Yoke with the exception of the 5%~ of tech divers who think the entire scuba industry is smoking crack by not following their rigid standards. If you do go DIN, then plan on a DIN~Yoke converter as MOST resort destinations do NOT have DIN available. Some may, but those also tend to be the high end tech OP's, and if you don't have doubles, and a BP/W, they may look at you cross-eyed!

The Americas do not constitute the ENTIRE world. DIN regulators are widespread in Europe, and most dive centres in Europe, the Red Sea, Indian Ocean and South East Asia will have tanks with DIN convertible valves and staff who are familiar with their use. The only place I've ever been to where there were no DIN convertible tanks available was Bonaire, so I used a converter. I haven't dived anywhere else in the Americas or Carribean though.

 

[fnfalman]

Betty,

If you don't think that you can trust your hoseless AI computer enough to not have a backup SPG attached to your regulator at the same time, then you shouldn't waste your money on hoseless AI computer. Just get a hosed AI computer and call it a day.

I dive with plenty of underwaterphotographers who use all sorts of cameras and videocams with all sorts of flashes. None ever complained about interferences between flashes and hoseless AI transmitters. My AI transmitter has ONE O-ring just like an SPG console.

Anyway, I dive for fun and I like to maximize my bottom time. I don't care to do arithmetics in my head or on the slate trying to figure out how much air I have at a certain depth by calculating remaining pressure versus my SAC rate. I dive for fun (recreational diving) and not for managing gases and equipment. If I were to want to manage gases and equipment, I'd have gone technical diving.

As far as redundancy goes, where will it end? Are you going to carry two of everything just for the sake of redundancy?