Newbie stupid question of the day . . 1st Stages

[ToddK]

I dive the standard analog SPG clipped to a D-ring, and don't have any thoughts of changing to AI. That said, it seems like AI wireless with a backup analog SPG may be redundancy overkill. The worst case would be if you had your wireless AI fail during a dive (from the posts above this sounds like a rare event). In this case, turn the dive and start heading up.

If you have a failure on the surface, you could always carry an SPG and a wrench in your save a dive kit to convert back to an analog SPG. In this way, you wouldn't have to buy a new reg to replace one that sounds like it is working for you. I've swapped the original yokes on my Scubapro's to DIN + yoke adapter, and then after buying doubles, to just straight DIN. All of these worked very well.

 

[sibermike7]

As for DIN vs. Yoke. I don't know. I guess that depends on the type of tanks you're going to use most often, AL80 or HP steel. I will say this. I do most of my diving in the Caribbean and more and more I'm seeing that dive ops are willing and able to accommodate DIN regs (with DIN valves, not inserts), if you just let them know. Personally, I just don't like adding adapters to anything. That's just adding another piece of equipment I have to remember, rely on, and maintain.

It isn't the tank but the valve that determines which to use. Most (actually all here in Europe) valves we use are DIN. You add the insert to convert for yoke, not the other way around. Also, you can out an adapter on a DIN to convert it to yoke for a valve that is yoke only.

In short: 1. if the valve is DIN, you add a simple insert to allow yokes. This is nice and easy and can be done in about 30 seconds. 2. if the valve is only yoke and you have a DIN 1st stage, you'll need a yoke adapter to convert a DIN 1st stage. This is a pain as it make the 1st stage larger and can hit you in the back of the head.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

It isn't the tank but the valve that determines which to use. Most (actually all here in Europe) valves we use are DIN. You add the insert to convert for yoke, not the other way around. Also, you can out an adapter on a DIN to convert it to yoke for a valve that is yoke only.

In short: 1. if the valve is DIN, you add a simple insert to allow yokes. This is nice and easy and can be done in about 30 seconds. 2. if the valve is only yoke and you have a DIN 1st stage, you'll need a yoke adapter to convert a DIN 1st stage. This is a pain as it make the 1st stage larger and can hit you in the back of the head.

That's embarrassing! You're absolutely right.

 

[ScubaDocER]

This is a pain as it make the 1st stage larger and can hit you in the back of the head.

This is an interesting statement that I have seen made by several people. I have never had that happen. The long part of the adapter is facing away from you (at least it is on mine). The distance between the valve and the DIN connector is minimal with the assembled yoke adapter. I just toss my yoke adapter in my reg bag where it sits until needed. It fits in the palm of my hand and screws onto my DIN connector in about 10 seconds. It should not be a pain to assemble and allows the flexibility to use tanks with either yoke or DIN valves.

 

[JohnAC]

Ok, so 53 dives in and my obsession turns to first stage regulators. (You techies can stop rolling your eyes cuz it took me so long to get to first stages! )

I have an aqualung titan lx. Is doing the job. No complaints.

However, I am now looking at an AI (air integrated) dive computer which means if I want to continue to have my SPG as a back up, I need 2 HP connections. Granted, I can use the dive computer without the transmitter attached and continue with my current SPG setup, but why have an AI if you can't use it. I could also use the computer as intended without an SPG but the paranoid part of me is screaming REDUNDANCY - not that I don't trust computers, but well, I don't trust computers.

Also, I'm currently setup as a yoke/o-ring but would like to consider a DIN setup. The whole bursting o-ring thing worries me more then it should. Figure if I'm looking at a new setup, I might as well address the DIN thing.

So, I need advice on first stages. As usual, I'm cheap so please don't suggest a $1K setup. It isn't even an option for me. Probably max out around $500-$600.

I dive various environments (55 degrees to tropics) and travel to dive, in case that matters.

Any and all advice welcome! And please tell me if there is something I'm forgetting to consider in the evaluation. Cuz I don't know what I don't know.

Thanks!

1. I would avoid the AI. I have had friends AI stuff fail during their dives and have to terminate their dive day. This has happened more than once. Anolog SPG's and Depth gauges are the way to go for me.

2. I switched to DIN and am happy I did. Yoke valves are fine, but for hp steel tanks, DIN better.

3. I bought a Scubapro MK20 1st and g250 2nd. They were used, I had them serviced, and they are great! This is a balanced piston rig that was popular with tech divers some years back.

 

[Deep-6]

Hey Betty, I know someone mentioned it before. But, my 1st stage is a Scuba Pro Mk25 and I love it. I went with it because it offers 2 HP ports and more LP ports than most people could use. It's other selling point was that it's versatile, so it's appropriate for cold and warm water conditions. It also swivels so it can be mounted anyway you deem comfortable. You should check one out.

 

[QatarDiver]

I definately recommend DIN, I've never had an O ring problem with DIN, I cant understand why anyone would use anything else. As for single HP port, I have the same issue with the Aqualung Mikron, 2 options, T piece in the HP port, then transmitter and gauge, but that's one more thing to fail, get snagged etc, or just carry an SPG and replace the transmitter if it fails to pair before the dive, which is the most likely scenario. The only tiime my Suunto Vyper failed to pair was when I hadnt read the instructions! I perfer the lack of clutter by not having a secondary SPG, and sling a pony is going deep, which gives me redundacy all round.

 

[sibermike7]

This is an interesting statement that I have seen made by several people. I have never had that happen. The long part of the adapter is facing away from you (at least it is on mine). The distance between the valve and the DIN connector is minimal with the assembled yoke adapter.

I suspect that you have a 200 bar DIN valve. The 300 DIN is longer. The threads on my DIN are just over 1" long (just measured them!) add that to the thickness of the yoke where it mates to the o-ring and you have about 1.25 - 1.5" overall. That is how much closer the adapter puts the DIN valve towards your head. The threads are normally screwed completely into the valve and away from your head. With the adapter ALL the threads are outside the valve (and towards your head) AND you still have to add the yoke adapter thickness which places the valve even closer to your head. (I hope I am writing coherently!)

What I think that you think we are referring to as "the long part" is the knob that is tightened to secure the yoke. That does indeed face away from you (on the other side of the valve. I have 300bar DIN, yoke adapters, and and 1 reg with a standard yoke so I can see all of these in front of me. If added 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 " is no problem then the yoke is no problem either.

I just toss my yoke adapter in my reg bag where it sits until needed. It fits in the palm of my hand and screws onto my DIN connector in about 10 seconds. It should not be a pain to assemble and allows the flexibility to use tanks with either yoke or DIN valves.

That is true, but I still don't like to use DIN to yoke the adapter!
Is it easier and "cleaner" to adapt a yoke to a DIN than it is the other way around, but I still like my DINs better because they screw into the threads of the valve instead of being "clamped" onto an o-ring.

If buying a tank, put a 300 bar DIN valve on it and buy a 39 cent insert in case someone wants to put a yoke on it! Try to convince everyone else to do the same and then we can use the DINs everywhere!

 

[sibermike7]

Hey Betty, I know someone mentioned it before. But, my 1st stage is a Scuba Pro Mk25 and I love it. I went with it because it offers 2 HP ports and more LP ports than most people could use. It's other selling point was that it's versatile, so it's appropriate for cold and warm water conditions. It also swivels so it can be mounted anyway you deem comfortable. You should check one out.

I too like my MK25. I will be using one when I come to the States next month. It is not the best choice for cold water however. The MK17 is. The MK25 has an open area that can contribute to freeze up if you are going to be diving in cold water. I do LOVE the swivel on the 25. Hey Betty, I have too many regs anyway and if you want to connect with me in FL while I'm there, I would definitely let the MK25 go for what I got in it! (PM me if interested in discussing this) I just had it and my x650 second stage serviced about 1-2 months ago!