Newer, but better?
- Thread starter mmadiver
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grassyknoll
Contributor
No, it is me that sucks, the reg is more the suckee than sucker.
I actually picked up an old conshelf reg recently. I need some replacement parts though, having never tried one I look forward to testing it out.
Wayward Son
Contributor
Newer Scubapro 1st stages have a higher flow rate than the Mk5. But once you hit a certain point the user can't tell the difference. The Mk 5 is rated at 95 cfm or some such, more than enough for one diver. More would be better for 2 breathing off it, especially if they're working hard, but how important that is I dunno.
The R109 2nd stage has been upgraded from an adjustable to a balanced adjustable. I don't think many current 2nd stages breath any better & being a brass body, not plastic, the R109 doesn't breath as dry. The only negative I can see to it is that it weighs more, but this is offset by the fact that not being plastic, it won't get brittle & crack or anything. I've taken care of it & it looks close to new. All the chrome is intact with only minor, insignificant surface scratches.
So as nice as a new Mk11 or 17 is, I have a hard time talking myself into retiring a perfectly good reg that's never let me down & works as good today as the day it came out of the box.
Though it would be nice to have a spare reg for when this one is getting annual service, so maybe some day I'll buy one for that purpose.
The R109 2nd stage has been upgraded from an adjustable to a balanced adjustable. I don't think many current 2nd stages breath any better & being a brass body, not plastic, the R109 doesn't breath as dry. The only negative I can see to it is that it weighs more, but this is offset by the fact that not being plastic, it won't get brittle & crack or anything. I've taken care of it & it looks close to new. All the chrome is intact with only minor, insignificant surface scratches.
So as nice as a new Mk11 or 17 is, I have a hard time talking myself into retiring a perfectly good reg that's never let me down & works as good today as the day it came out of the box.
Though it would be nice to have a spare reg for when this one is getting annual service, so maybe some day I'll buy one for that purpose.
diver 85
Contributor
mmadiver:
Some people have too much money & can't spend it all.......but..........me........I still use my SP Mk 10 & G200 I upgraded to in about ?'89 or so(why fix it if it ain't broken).....
divinginn
Contributor
ditto on the mk 5 balanced adjustable,wouldnt trade it for any new one out there,plus theres is that cool factor of all that shiny chrome kinda like a 57 caddilac.
Well, I for one dived for 8 years with my Conshelf SE2 (although not as much as I wanted, as the ocean was far away and I didn't own a car) then in the new millenium got an Atomic B1.
I'll say that I was pretty happy with what the SE2 was giving me in terms of performance, but after one dive with the B1, I was really glad I got it.
The difference is in the breathing effort and comfort. Sure, the SE2 is good enough for any nice recreational dive, but the B1 makes it even more enjoyable, and oh yes, the difference is like night and day.
I'll say that I was pretty happy with what the SE2 was giving me in terms of performance, but after one dive with the B1, I was really glad I got it.
The difference is in the breathing effort and comfort. Sure, the SE2 is good enough for any nice recreational dive, but the B1 makes it even more enjoyable, and oh yes, the difference is like night and day.
mmadiver:
Well...for one...your SE2 is NOT in my reg bag and I can't breathe off it...but I CAN breathe off my Aqualung Titan!
I'm really glad you've got a reg you really like that's been around for a lot of dives.
Mine's newer because I haven't been diving as long as you have. :blinking:
BTW - I got mine new for about half of the original MSRP because I bought it a a "tent sale" where they were selling off new equipment that was a few model years behind. I'm not a slave to "style". I AM a slave to my budget, though.
Cheers...
Ian
Arcaporale
Contributor
Your Conshelf is an excelent regulator, the first stage design is bulletproof and a proven performer. The second stage design is by today's standards somewhat primative, yet simple and effective. Today high end Scubapro's, Aqualungs, and all Apeks and Atomics use balanced second stages that are much more sensitive, reliable, and most are adjustable. They are much more complicated, and have many more moving parts. The SE2 only has a LP seat and 2 or 3 orings that need to be replaced each service, other regulators have about 6+ orings and many small delicate parts. Pretty much every regulator nowadays also has a venturi switch, which is automatic in the Atomics. You would have to try for youself to see how much easier breathing a balanced second stage is.
Wayward Son
Contributor
Now, as much as I like my Mk 5, i think it should be kept in mind that not all older regs breath & perform as good as new ones do. So the choice needs to be a well informed one.
I'm not familiar with the specific Conshelf model you named, but the Conshelf line in general has long been a solidly performing workhorse. there may be little or no gain in buying new. I think that's where an objective look at the actual flow rates of your model compared to some new ones would be relevant as well as deciding at what point is the flow rate great enough that you just wouldn't be able to use more in any case.
The 1st stage flow rate is always limited by what the 2nd can deliver. It seems to me that for most, the risk of over breathing comes into play when 2 or more divers will be breathing off a single 1st stage. Seeing as how the new ones have been tested with way more than 2 or 3 2nd's being breathed at the same time at depth, in practical terms there's a very real point at which more won't matter if you & a buddy will be sharing it & surfacing.
The Mk 25, for example, has a greater flow rate than the Mk 17. But DA Aquamaster has found that for many of his uses he likes the 17 better & the extra flow rate of the 25 just isn't needed, so it doesn't harm him to give it up.
With my Mk5 I'm on the lower end of the scale, but I have to ask myself the same question: How much more from the 1st stage will actually matter, for 2 divers at recreational depths?
I'm not sure where your Conshelf fits in, but that's what I'd be finding out if I was trying to make this decision for one.
I'm not familiar with the specific Conshelf model you named, but the Conshelf line in general has long been a solidly performing workhorse. there may be little or no gain in buying new. I think that's where an objective look at the actual flow rates of your model compared to some new ones would be relevant as well as deciding at what point is the flow rate great enough that you just wouldn't be able to use more in any case.
The 1st stage flow rate is always limited by what the 2nd can deliver. It seems to me that for most, the risk of over breathing comes into play when 2 or more divers will be breathing off a single 1st stage. Seeing as how the new ones have been tested with way more than 2 or 3 2nd's being breathed at the same time at depth, in practical terms there's a very real point at which more won't matter if you & a buddy will be sharing it & surfacing.
The Mk 25, for example, has a greater flow rate than the Mk 17. But DA Aquamaster has found that for many of his uses he likes the 17 better & the extra flow rate of the 25 just isn't needed, so it doesn't harm him to give it up.
With my Mk5 I'm on the lower end of the scale, but I have to ask myself the same question: How much more from the 1st stage will actually matter, for 2 divers at recreational depths?
I'm not sure where your Conshelf fits in, but that's what I'd be finding out if I was trying to make this decision for one.
thomjinx
Contributor
I have both an old Conshelf XIV and a newer Oceanic Titanium Reg.
To me, the thing I like about the newer reg is that it is adjustable. I can adjust it before the dive to prevent freeflow when jumping in, and then at depth I can set it to breath very easily.
But....the body of the 2nd stage is plastic and I have seen quite a few plastic 2nd stages crack and break. The body of my Conshelf 2nd is metal, and would be very difficult to break. But it is heavier.
All engineering is compromise.
When set up properly, the Conshelf doesn't breath badly at all. But I think any adjustable reg will breath a bit easier, everything else being equal.
To me, the thing I like about the newer reg is that it is adjustable. I can adjust it before the dive to prevent freeflow when jumping in, and then at depth I can set it to breath very easily.
But....the body of the 2nd stage is plastic and I have seen quite a few plastic 2nd stages crack and break. The body of my Conshelf 2nd is metal, and would be very difficult to break. But it is heavier.
All engineering is compromise.
When set up properly, the Conshelf doesn't breath badly at all. But I think any adjustable reg will breath a bit easier, everything else being equal.
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