NLE's

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diversteve

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NLE's (Non Linear Editors) - let's discuss them here.

I hope this thread will evolve into both likes/dislikes and also provide some technical support for specific options.
 
sharksdelight:
I'm a Mac guy myself; always have been. Been using Final Cut Pro since its inception and have no desire to move. It is rock solid stable and offers all the flexibility and 3rd party software you can get. -Steve:14:

Apple vs Microsoft aside (I'd much rather join the Mac side, if only because I am not a big fan of Microsoft, but thats another issue) I have not used FCP, but everyone that I know that uses Final Cut Pro loves it, and I know quite a few. I went with Adobe Production Studio because I am too far invested in PC to change now, and because Premiere is what I learned on and know. I have been using Premiere for a few years now, starting with 6.5 and am now up to Pro 2.0 and am very happy with it. It is a professional level program as well, but is easy to get started with and use, and has far more capabilities than I have ever been able to take advantage of, especially when combined with After Effects. It also helps to have its integration capability with Photoshop and Illustrator, which I use frequently. One thing that I have noticed about FCP is that it seems to have the better rendering engine.

Truthfully, unless you are selling your videos, most people shooting mainly underwater do not need to spend the hundreds of dollars on either program, and could probably do just fine with Premiere Elements, Imovie, or even Windows Movie Maker, although I'm not sure what color correction capabilities the free programs have.
 
I started serious NLE work on a Canopus editing system (with hardware mpeg assist) and did that for a couple of years. Then moved to Adobe Premier 6.0 then 6.5. Two years ago I moved to Sony Vegas, and have not looked back. It takes some getting used to, but MAN is it powerful.

It's the ONLY NLE I am aware of on any platform that is format agnostic. You basically set your project file type to be whatever you want to do a final render to, say 24p, and then you can drop on nearly ANYTHING, regardless of interlacing or not, frame rate, whatever. Edit it all seamlessly, mix and match, color grade, lay on title tracks, composites, do green-screening, etc., and then render out into any one of dozens of formats from iPod and PSP, to WMV-HD, to Mpeg-4/h.261/AVCHD. It can network render and use multiple networked CPUs. You can create your own filter chains and save them, so you can simply apply a series of corrections or effects to multiple clips. You can ripple edit or turn it off. You have built in waveform monitor, histograms (luma and chroma), vectorscope that updates in real time while playing or scrubbing, and just so much more. It allows me to print back to tape with built in tone/bars, burn timecode, etc.

Terrific package for the price and I'd seriously consider it for doing shorts. Don't know how it would handle doing a feature. But I've done a 1hr project on it with about 70 scenes, titling, multiple soundtracks, etc., and it handled it all very cleanly.

I'm in the midst of a short documentary at the moment, and I've been very pleased at how easy it is to do what I need to do. About the only thing I miss from Premier is the ability to print an effective Leader at the front of the tape. I may have to render one to uncompressed DV from Premier, and just use it as a seperate track in Vegas. :)
 
We just upgraded to Adobe Creative Suite CS3 Master Edition. Pretty expensive but we wanted something that was completely integrated.
It is great the way Adobe has integrated all of the former Macromedia software with theirs. Having Photoshop integrated with Macromedia is a huge help in terms of workflow.
One of the big reasons we did the upgrade was the new capabilities within Adobe Encore to publish an entire DVD project file to flash. The flash ends up working exactly like the dvd would on your tv.

Anyone else upgrading to CS3?
 
I've been editing on AVID systems for 14 years now and have a love/hate relationships with anything AVID. The database and file management system on AVID is the best I've seen, but my system - AVID Adrenaline on Mac - has it's quirks - being fairly unstable and such. But the capabilities are very much geared towards full production editing and as such work very well.

I haven't worked with their FCP competing product, but have read that it works very much like the high end products, only without some of the real-time functions.

I use Final Cut Pro for various odd projects shot in DV or with medical arthroscopy equipment, and while I still have a ways to go before I get used to the difference in controls, FCP is still very easy to work with and very capable with any format I've thrown at it so far. I've been spoiled by the Adrenaline, so having to render bugs me a bit, but not more than I can deal with.

Henrik
 
The only one I've used is Sony Vegas, and I've been very happy with it. With the comments from PerroneFord in the post above, I doubt I will try any others. Sounds like most of the NLE's on the market work well, but they all take time to master. My problem is finding time to work on my video projects, since my paying job, and the weekend chore list, leaves little spare time to play.

Vic
 
NauiIT:
Anyone else upgrading to CS3?

A month after I bought CS2, they came out with CS3. Oh well....It'll be a while before I upgrade.

Video rookie:
The only one I've used is Sony Vegas, and I've been very happy with it. With the comments from PerroneFord in the post above, I doubt I will try any others. Sounds like most of the NLE's on the market work well, but they all take time to master. My problem is finding time to work on my video projects, since my paying job, and the weekend chore list, leaves little spare time to play.

Vic
Theres no reason at all to go and spend hundreds on another NLE when you already have Vegas. Go with the one that works well for you and spend your hard earned money on something else.

Most of the higher end NLE's are very powerful, but simple to get started with, so that should not scare anyone off from trying one. I was editing with Premiere within minutes after getting it out of the box and loading it, although I will probably never use it to its full potential.
 
DaFireMedic:
I was editing with Premiere within minutes after getting it out of the box and loading it, although I will probably never use it to its full potential.

You'd be surprised. I got into corporate video simply to transfer old video shot on VHS to DVD. As word traveled that this service was available, more people wanted video. So we bought a new camera. Now I needed better gear.

In terms of editing, I went from basic 2-track (one video, one sound) to doing more complex projects. One day I got asked to record a retirement. It was the first time I had a moving camera, multiple shots, complex scene editing, color correction, titling, a soundtrack, etc. Then I had to produce a DVD with a nice menu structure, etc. I learned enough doing that project to finally put my short documentary into the editor. Probably 3 dozen scenes, titles, sound, interviews (still need to be shot), background shots (still need to be done), etc.

As you get more and more projects, you begin to stretch yourself. For my documentary, I actually shot a scene outside Grumanns Chinese Theatre in Hollywood. However, I forgot to white balance. That was my first real tricky use of color correction. On the same project, I used color correction and grading to get some looks I wanted, and to match some footage. Velocity envelopes to go into slow motion for short periods, etc. Again, the project dictated learning new things.
 
PerroneFord:
You'd be surprised. I got into corporate video simply to transfer old video shot on VHS to DVD. As word traveled that this service was available, more people wanted video. So we bought a new camera. Now I needed better gear.

In terms of editing, I went from basic 2-track (one video, one sound) to doing more complex projects. One day I got asked to record a retirement. It was the first time I had a moving camera, multiple shots, complex scene editing, color correction, titling, a soundtrack, etc. Then I had to produce a DVD with a nice menu structure, etc. I learned enough doing that project to finally put my short documentary into the editor. Probably 3 dozen scenes, titles, sound, interviews (still need to be shot), background shots (still need to be done), etc.

As you get more and more projects, you begin to stretch yourself. For my documentary, I actually shot a scene outside Grumanns Chinese Theatre in Hollywood. However, I forgot to white balance. That was my first real tricky use of color correction. On the same project, I used color correction and grading to get some looks I wanted, and to match some footage. Velocity envelopes to go into slow motion for short periods, etc. Again, the project dictated learning new things.

Lol...I share your pain. This sounds eerily similar to a training film project that was dropped on me shortly after I got into editing, the difference being that I could tell them to pound sand because I was using my own camcorder, my own computer and software, and because it didn't fall under my job description. However I took it on and enjoyed it because it challenged me and, just like you, required me to learn new things. And now I am completely new to underwater videography and am already having to learn new things, which is why I am prowling this forum.

I was really just referring to editing most underwater videos into a watchable format, adding an audio track, even some basic color correction, and rendering a watchable DVD. Most NLE's, even the high end ones are easy to learn for such projects. But you are right, some projects can take on a life of their own and will require some real digging in to the complexities of the software. Also, I have found node based formats more difficult for me than a timeline, but maybe because I have never put much time into learning it.
 

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