No Ferry To Maui

[MauiScubaSteve]

But, but, this state has been controlled for over 50 years by one group, how could there possibly be corruption??? Have the people been fooled by who they keep electing? :14:

All right, no politics allowed here................

You keep spouting the One Party Mantra, but the decisions being contested here are coming from the other party. I am not condoning either party, at the county, state or federal level. The two party system is not working and hasn't for quite some time.

 

[Lopaka]

First off, if the Pacific Fleet had not been in Pearl Harbor, would the attack have happened?

Wow...........That says volumes. Have a nice day.......

 

[Cacia]

Halemano, you have posted some legitimate environmental concerns. I am suggesting that for the environmentalists to be so anti-military, it could actually be counterproductive to the cause. For people who supposedly love peace so much, they seem to have great difficulty understanding other's perspectives on this.

For a *non-violent pacifist* group to throw rocks and bang on private citizen's automobiles--well, its disingenuous and suspect. You really cannot see that?
The United States of America will have a military and regardless of where you stand on policy, we owe it to the men and women who are actually giving their lives to allow them to train.

 

[Charlie99]

All I have ever said is the EA was mandated by Law and Lingle decided the Law didn't matter.

Or the decisions were bought, not decided on the legal issues. It does not matter much, you can either do the web research or wait until it comes out in the media.

Edit; those Circuit Court Judges did not rule on the issue of EA. As I said, investigate before you type.

My mistake. Judge Helen Gillmor ruled that an Environmental Impact Statement wasn't required for the Superferry. No mention of any requirement for an EA. The lawsuit didn't request an EA, just an EIS.

On 9/28/05 Judge Helen Gillmor dismissed the suit brought by the Sierra Club, Maui Tomorrow and Kahului Harbor Coalition seeking to require the Superferry to prepare an Environmental Impact Study (EIS).

http://www.hi.sierraclub.org/maui/superferry.html


The other ruling by Judge Cardoza, July of 2005, meant that the state did not have to do an EA for the harbor improvements. This is the ruling that was overturned (and a summary judgement ordered) by the HI Supreme Court last week. That supreme court ruling only dealt with issues involving harbor improvement in Maui, which is why the ferry runs to Kauai can legally continue (and would, were it not for the inability of the Coast Guard to keep the sea lanes open).

I guess you figure that both judge Cardoza and Gillmor have been "bought". In my opinion, it is more likely that the 5 justices on the HI Supreme Court are engaging in politically motivated judicial activism rather than performing their function --- interpretation of the law.

The real situation is that the legal requirement for an EA for the harbor or an EIS for the ferry is not nearly as black and white as you believe.

The DOT and Lingle decided an EA wasn't necessary for the harbor improvements. In July 2005, Judge Cardoza dismissed the lawsuit trying to force an EA. Less than a week before the scheduled start of operations, and more than two years after the ruling by Judge Cardoza, the Supreme Court finally jumps in and rules against the state.

Meanwhile another lawsuit, attempting to require an EIS for the ferry operation itself is rejected by another circuit court judge in September 2005. So far, this ruling stands.

After these two court rulings, the issue was debated in the state legislature. The legislature chose not to pass any law requiring an EA for the harbor or an EIS for the ferry. Why not? If those are so clearly required by law, why not reaffirm that by passing a law specifically addressing the issue after the courts had ruled that no EA or EIS was needed. Normally the Democrat-controlled legislature takes advantage of any chance they get to take a whack at Governor Lingle. Instead, the 2007 legislature chose not to pass a law requiring the harbor EA or ferry EIS, and the was after the 2006 legislature put the $40 million for Kahului harbor improvement into the budget without requiring an EA, which was done AFTER the courts rulings whose effect was that EIS and EA were not required.

 

[mrjimboalaska]

First off, if the Pacific Fleet had not been in Pearl Harbor, would the attack have happened?

QUOTE]
ah, never mind...............

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

JB says the Hawaiian islands would be part of Japan if not for the military.:11doh:

First off, if the Pacific Fleet had not been in Pearl Harbor, would the attack have happened?

With regard to this particular thread hijack; I am not a historian but I read a lot and I can not find much to read concerning Hawaii being part of Japan were it not for the US military. There was a Japanese Imperial Navy gunboat docked in Pearl Harbor at the time of the overthrow whose Commander refused to lower the Kingdom of Hawaii flag, until ordered by the Japanese Government, but I have not heard that Japan would have anexed Hawaii then if the US didn't. My understanding of the Pearl Harbor attack was Japan attacked the US over the trade embargo (specifically fuel) and I do not recall many (any?) who felt they intended to occupy Hawaii; weren't they just intending to destroy the US Pacific Fleet? I very well could be wrong and if so please enlighten me.

I am not anti military but there are many thing the military is told to do that I question. I only mentioned the depleated uranium rounds because while searching for the links for post #17 was the first time I've encountered this line of reasoning and then while composing the post the nightly news started talking about DU rounds found at Hawaii training grounds (how ironic). I'm all for proper training of the military (as long as marine life is not unduly sacraficed) but military transport should be financed through the military budget and the apparent saftey net for HSF puts millions of dollars into the pockets of the rich guys who evidently planned to fail!

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

The other ruling by Judge Cardoza, July of 2005, meant that the state did not have to do an EA for the harbor improvements. This is the ruling that was overturned (and a summary judgement ordered) by the HI Supreme Court last week. That supreme court ruling only dealt with issues involving harbor improvement in Maui, which is why the ferry runs to Kauai can legally continue (and would, were it not for the inability of the Coast Guard to keep the sea lanes open).

I realize this requires reading every word, but Judge Cardoza ruled that the plaintifs had no standing to sue and never addressed the question of wheather an EA was required by Law. The State Supreme Court ruled that Cardoza's no standing rulling was eroneous (to put it politely) and due to the time constraints issued a summary judgement in favor of the origional plaintifs since the EA is a matter of Hawaii State Law.

The fact that these State Supreme Court Justices were appointed by a different political party than the Governer does not neccessarily mean they have not made a proper ruling on the issue. The fact is that County Councils of Kauai, Hawaii (Big Island) and Maui (unanimously) all passed resolutions requesting State Law be followed with regard to the EA and Lingle said no.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

The DOT and Lingle decided an EA wasn't necessary for the harbor improvements. In July 2005, Judge Cardoza dismissed the lawsuit trying to force an EA. Less than a week before the scheduled start of operations, and more than two years after the ruling by Judge Cardoza, the Supreme Court finally jumps in and rules against the state.

As I understand the appeal proccess, there are a great number of cases (backlog?) and just over 2 years wait probably meant this case was expidited in order to be decided in time.

The fat lady has not sung yet and this is the kingdom of dubya so I am not holding my breath that justice will be done.

A side note might be that ex-DOT head Rod Hiraga was probably replaced due in large part to his leaning toward following the Law in this case.

 

[mrjimboalaska]

So.
has the ferry started back up, or are the greenie whacko's still rioting in Maui. Would love to jump over in October. Halemano, in response to the "kingdom of Dubya" statement........sure wish it was, sure wish it was....we could get rid of that legislative branch that is the problem.......

 

[scubadrewvideo]

WOW what a thread!
My only thought is...
We (the human race) have repeatedly moved forward (so we thought) with ideas, technologies and concepts with visions of greatness or $$$, mostly $$$, only to find that "we" are doing more harm then good.
With that said, if we are as civilized as we think we are, then we shouldn't even be having this discussion because the EA would have been done a long time ago and done thoroughly, eagerly and voluntarily by those introducing the "new Idea".
If "we" could actually LEARN from our mistakes then this would never happen.
I will end my eutopian opinion with...

Lets not forget about these little critters that we have such a huge impact on, superferry or not.

Sorry, this is just a tasteless ploy to get you to watch my cool macro video