No LDS, Where to Get Tank Refilled?

[WD8CDH]

I find it ironic that while folks will debate "Internet Scuba" vs LDS, folks suggest hitting your Fire Department up for an air fill instead of suggesting they become an active member. In communities served by volunteers, it strikes me as sort of the same thing.

I'm a career FF, but still respect the folks that train and respond on their own time above & beyond their gainful employment. Sure, your local department might have a compressor for filling SCBA bottles and may or may not have an air whip adapter. I'd submit to you though that the training you receive and knowledge you gain would make you much more qualified and confident if you were ever called upon to utilize your EFR skills during a dive emergency.

Just some food for thought.

I give a "$ donation $" to the volunteer fire house whenever I get a fill there. Really good guys there.

 

[WD8CDH]

Actually I checked and paintball gun use CO2 so I wouldnt recommend diving with a bottle filled with CO2..... Could get nasty.

Almost all paintball guns can also use compressed air (often called HPA or Nitro). The compressed air paintball tanks usually are rated for 3000psi or 4500psi and have a regulator built into the valve. Most paintball shops have 5000psi compressors that are newer than the compressors in most dive shops. Filtering and testing is really the only difference. It may be worthwhile for a paintball shop to add a breathable filter chain.

BTW, almost all of the LDSs near me fill paintball tanks. I think they even use the same fitting as SpareAir.

 

[WD8CDH]

EtherFill 5000 enables gas fills over the Internet

How many fills can I store on my 20 G laptop hard drive? There is no compressor on the dive boat.

 

[Ron Brandt]

Have you checked any local industrial supply houses? Lots of them fill SCBA's and air is tested. You may have to supply an adaptor as you mifght have to at the paintball place.

Praxair also does high pressure breathing air.

Ron

 

[peterbj7]

Once there's no LDS in an area how long do you think a non-diving facility will be prepared to use (and wear out) its equipment for divers? Not too long.

This topic has been discussed at length elsewhere, and a surprising number of people don't seem to have thought it through that an LDS needs profit to survive in the face of very high costs. If people buy their goodies over the internet the LDS makes nothing and closure will probably be the result. No available air is a direct consequence.

 

[redacted]

Once there's no LDS in an area how long do you think a non-diving facility will be prepared to use (and wear out) its equipment for divers? Not too long.

This topic has been discussed at length elsewhere, and a surprising number of people don't seem to have thought it through that an LDS needs profit to survive in the face of very high costs. If people buy their goodies over the internet the LDS makes nothing and closure will probably be the result. No available air is a direct consequence.

As long as it is profitable. And with no local competition, there is no reason it should not be reasonably profitable if there is a large enough dive community.

Yes, we have discussed this topic many times. And it comes down to whose responsibility is it to make an LDS profitable. Seems like some operations want to make it the customers' responsibility.

 

[coach_izzy]

Once there's no LDS in an area how long do you think a non-diving facility will be prepared to use (and wear out) its equipment for divers? Not too long.

Let us assume that in fact, the LDS closed and now there is a non-diving facility providing its equipment for local divers. They are the ones who need the fills after all. If we are talking about a few divers, and those divers dive only on the weekends, I cannot see a tremendous amount of extra wear and tear that could not be easily covered by the fill fees. The facility acquired the equipment for its own private use as it is needed for its operations. They did not go out and purchased a unit out of the goodness of their hearts to help divers. For what is worth, they may be even making a small profit by selling fills to the small number of divers.

If we are talking about a significant number of local divers who need to get their fills at the non-diving facility because the LDS flopped, then that is an entirely different subject. Why is it that with the presence of a significant number of local divers a dive shop did not find enough profits to stay in business?

Whatever legit reason may be obscured by an excuse (blame the Online Shops, Blame E-bay, Blame the new dive shop, etc) bottom line is that vast majority of the local divers did not see the value or trusted the LDS enough to keep it running.

Frankly, when it comes to prices, I do not really see a problem between LDS prices and Online prices. The real problem here, is the PERCEIVED value. People DO NOT necessarily purchase something based on prices but rather based on value.

In the many threads similar to this one, one can find several posters who happily support their LDS. These are not money-loaded spend rifts. These are regular folks who found a lot more than just gear. The most common phrase I see is "I do not mind paying a few extra bucks in return for the support and guidance I get". Kudos to the owners of those shops! They have earned the trust and appreciation of their customers. These are the owners who take the time to answer every question, who take the time to make people feel welcome, who take the time to build rapport and who make the customer feel like a friend. When it is time to ring the register, the last thing that will be on the customer's mind will be "I could've paid less online". Instead, the customer will be thinking how great and helpful the person was, and how the advice and recommendations were PRICELESS. Trust and rapport can overcome any price markup. Word of mouth will spread, and a repeat business is virtually assured.

HOWEVER, if the customer's experience is the opposite, you can be sure the reviews will be anything but positive. Again, let's refer to threads similar to this one. The most common grievances refer to LDS owners who think they are doing the customer a favor, or are too pushy, or make promises they do not keep, or preach the virtues of the gear they sell and put down the brands they do not stock. Trashing a brand not carried may have worked in the 80s where instant information was not available. In this era of fast information, LDS owners who vilify rival brands are setting themselves up for failure. You can be sure that the customer will be using resources like scubaboard to research the "evil" gear only to find many satisfied users. Who ends up looking like a loud-mouthed fool full of hot air? It's not the "evil" gear manufactures for sure.

This is the kind of scenario that erases every trace of value from a shop, and makes the customer focus on the more obvious bottom line, PRICE.

A customer happy with his LDS will disregard the markup because they know they are getting a lot more for their money than tangible goods. A mistreated LDS customer will feel ripped-off and disrespected in every instance, and should they ever get a break, they will not be grateful, rather they will say something along the lines of "It's about time, I deserve it for putting up with that A..H..."

It is very easy to get caught in the trap of competing for prices. Not too easy to stand out by providing superb value.

The advantage of the LDS owners is that they have the upper hand when it comes to building rapport and trust, and yet somehow, a significant number are failing to do so. The successful online retailers are aware of how important trust from their clients is to stay in business. They are doing a great job of earning the customer's support and trust despite the lack of direct one-on-one interaction. Heck, I have never met Joe or Larry at Scuba Toys, or Phil Ellis, but I would not hesitate to do business with them when needed. I do this based on my previous experiences and the efforts they make to communicate. And yes, I also support my LDS, and as long as they remain professional, helpful, and not preachy, I will continue to do so.

Based on my opening paragraph, and based on the scenario given, if the number of divers is so high that it warrants a significant amount of extra wear and tear on the equipment of the non-diving facility, that simply tells me the divers did not see the value on the defunct LDS and did not trust it enough to support it. It was simply a matter of time before the inevitable happened.

My 2 PSI (well, more like a full HP Steel 3442 120 Cu. cylinder)

 

[RJP]

Yep, my LDS is closing their doors, so I'm pretty much stuck. Where can I get my tanks refilled? There's a place that fills paintball tanks...should I go see them? The next dive shop is 45 minutes away, which is a tough drive for a $5 refill. Any suggestions?

A bit ironic that a guy with LeisurePro.com and ScubaToys.com links in his sig line is now crying the blues about his LDS closing their doors, no?

 

[FlyinV]

New diver here -- Not even certified yet

Anyhow I see the prices my LDS charges is a bit less then some online stores on some of the full gear packages.

I will certainly buy from them since I want their advice and help.
I could tell from my first visit to the shop -- the people there care about diving, hopefully they stay in business. I would have thought given the smaller divers in the area. (Oregon) the local prices would have been high to keep the doors open.

The only downside on my choice of LDS is no pool on site but a nice arrangement with a fitness club up the street so perhaps thats even better (bigger). Some of the small pools at the other LDS didn't look that nice for classes

 

[diver 85]

Yep, my LDS is closing their doors, so I'm pretty much stuck. Where can I get my tanks refilled? There's a place that fills paintball tanks...should I go see them? The next dive shop is 45 minutes away, which is a tough drive for a $5 refill. Any suggestions?

Sorry to hear Leisure Pro & Scuba Toys are biting the dust...Guess you'll need to now check with your local fire department---one station here locally doesn't mind filling my tanks, they have a nice 3 tank Bauer compressor.........