Damsel- your pony tank will also give you or them a ride to the surface, There have been many good points made here( and some asses shown, too) ...A "group" dive " from a cruise ship or any other large group dive scenerio does not give me a warm feeling regarding buddies who I have known for the time it takes to get to the dive sight/even Liveaboards can't give you any feeling for sure what will happen on any OOA situation...The point of my post was to see if Octo's were falling out of favor...clearly they are less in use today than a few years ago as safe seconds/air 2 have replaced them....just a question
No Octo?? Here goes...Blast away!!
- Thread starter billeelou
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Damselfish
Contributor
I don't think that's clear at all. Safe seconds aren't replacing octos, an octo is a safe second. And I don't see that air2, another form of safe second, is replacing separate octos or not, certainly not proven one way or another by this thread. It's just another option that some people like but many hate and I don't think it matters all that much except for people to argue about. Assuming you dive with a pony, sure it's another option. Which is a little different than having no option. It was never clear from the beginning of this thread what the situation was. In any event, if you've already decided what answer you are looking for, you will often see whatever you need to prove it in the responses.
The terminology is beaucoup confusing, billeelou. An Air2, a Shadow+, or a separate second stage on a dedicated LP hose are all examples of a safe second, aka alternate air source. The use of "octo" has come into common use, by at least some people, as a synonym for safe second or alternate air source, simply meaning having a second second stage regulator. For example, someone might say "I use an Air2 as my octo".
Where you get slammed, at least in part, is the terminology, I believe. If you had phrased the question as something like "Are things other than regulator-on-dedicated-hose safe seconds becoming more common?", then said "I, and many of the people I dive with, use an Air2 or other alternate air source", perhaps things would have been cleaner.
(It gets confusing, some people think you are advocating no backup of any kind, while others think that you do have an Air2, just not the old regulator-on-dedicated-hose implementation.)
Where you get slammed, at least in part, is the terminology, I believe. If you had phrased the question as something like "Are things other than regulator-on-dedicated-hose safe seconds becoming more common?", then said "I, and many of the people I dive with, use an Air2 or other alternate air source", perhaps things would have been cleaner.
(It gets confusing, some people think you are advocating no backup of any kind, while others think that you do have an Air2, just not the old regulator-on-dedicated-hose implementation.)
H2Andy:
Then consider both of us solo divers if you wish. That is essentially what we are. However I see no reason to not dive "together" despite that. We share our images and our experiences afterwards. My #1 buddy has years of experience working for dive operations including the Aggfressor and Peter Hughes fleets. I trust her implicitly.
I will dive solo routinely to 100 ft and occasionally deeper. I prefer a buddy on those deeper dives of course. We each make our own choices regarding personal comfort level so this is no criticism of your decision.
Diver Dennis
Contributor
drbill:
I agree. Most of the dives I do are "diving in the same ocean" with my regular buddy or group that I am with.
EDIT: Or solo.
Creed
Contributor
miler10498:
Well, my first post replying to this was apparently lost in the ether.
This doesn't make sense to me. First off, whatever happened to buddy breathing? Even if the donor is using a double hose, you should be able to buddy breathe. Is this skill not even taught anymore? The lack of an octo didn't kill people for the decades when they weren't common. Why would it now? And what would you do if you did grab that octo, and it didn't work?
Secondly, I don't understand this willingness to rely on others. When I plan a dive, I assume that in an emergency, I will be alone. A buddy can swim off, and usually right when you need them. I learned this lesson the (almost) hard way. We were diving in 45ft of water, I got too close to a submerged tree, and got tangled in monofilament line. Guess what? I didn't have a knife. Yeah, a stupid mistake, but that's why you have a buddy, right? I watched that buddy swim away. Now, my goose was about 45% cooked at that moment. I tried to free myself, and couldn't. It was time to ditch the gear, keeping my regulator in hand as I chewed my way out. Luckily, the buddy made a reappearance at that moment, and cut me out. In a later incident, we were night diving, I stopped for a moment, and my buddy AND the instructor disappeared. I looked for them per PADI training, and surfaced. They didn't notice I was gone for almost 5 more minutes. If I were having an OOA emergency and relying on them, I would have been toast.
My point is not to dictate your diving, but rather to point out what I consider to be a dangerous idea. If you are accepting someone as a buddy because you feel that you can rely on their gear, you are placing yourself in a compromised position. That gear may fail, and that buddy may not be there when you need them.
StSomewhere
Contributor
If you are diving as a team your buddy won't be swimming off, usually right when you need them. If so, that's the last guy I want to rely on buddy breathing skills for so that argument doesn't sway me. I can't believe that after your buddy abandoned you on one dive, you went ahead and did another dive (a night dive no less!) with him. One of your equipment choices is the equipment your buddy carries with him, choose wisely.
(BTW, its:
"Haul the sheet in as we ride on the wind
That our forefathers harnessed before us
Hear the bells ring as the tight rigging sings
It’s a son of a gun of a chorus")
(BTW, its:
"Haul the sheet in as we ride on the wind
That our forefathers harnessed before us
Hear the bells ring as the tight rigging sings
It’s a son of a gun of a chorus")
Divmstr223
Contributor
Creed:
Very good points Creed! I'm a firm believer that you should for the most part rely on yourself in a bad situation. If a buddy is around (he/she should be) to bail you out, that's wonderful, but don't count on it. You should always carry the essential gear to get yourself out of a jam. I love diving with my AIR 2, but I think I may look into a Pony bottle for future dives. It's a possibility anyway.
Anywho, having buddies there for you is great, but proper training, being prepared, and making the right decisions on your own will ultimately save your own life IMO...
MarcG
Guest
Sounds like alot of people have no confidence in their buddy. Why bother diving together?
I don't suscribe to the "If my buddy is there...great!" concept. There is never a question in my mind they will be there if I need them. This is why I generally dive with others of the same mindset.
I don't suscribe to the "If my buddy is there...great!" concept. There is never a question in my mind they will be there if I need them. This is why I generally dive with others of the same mindset.
Divmstr223
Contributor
MarcG:
It's not really a matter of having confidence in them...I know my buddies will be there for me. But in an instant anything can go wrong if your buddy is just a few kicks ahead of you and isn't paying attention, you could be in trouble and need to be prepared to get yourself out of a mess, and a good diver should be able to do just that.
Similar threads
