Non professional divers taking very young children diving (even in a pool)
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Charles2
Contributor
While you guys were busy with this, my grandchildren came to visit this weekend and we went into the pool and played with scuba gear. We had fun.
Thursday, if the weather goes as expected, one of my sons and I will go skydiving. By the way, the grandchildren want to do that also. They enjoy going to the drop zone with us now.
Cheers.
Thursday, if the weather goes as expected, one of my sons and I will go skydiving. By the way, the grandchildren want to do that also. They enjoy going to the drop zone with us now.
Cheers.
Basking Ridge Diver
Contributor
So, if I understand correctly, all you are saying is you would draw the line somewhere other than where I would draw it? If that's your point, then I don't see any disagreement. I am not advocating that everyone must reach the same conclusion as each other in every case. I am not asking you to agree that the "call I get to make" in any given instance is the same call you would make. We are all individuals, and we exercise our individual judgment.
So you do not see a parallel in this example?Replace government with Lorenzoid Incorporated...
Okay, I'm going to give up for lack of my understanding. Chalk it up to me being obtuse. I'll bow out. I'm sure you think you're being clever, but if you would say what you mean instead of inserting smiley faces and making cryptic references to non-existent corporations, I might understand better. Never mind.
I wonder what would happen if customers were as critical of shops, as shop-s were of customers???????
I want to rent a regulator for the day
20 dollars, OK
Do you have the maintenance records on the reg.
Do you have a new mouth piece on it
May I see the certifications of those that did the last maintenance
May I see the training records of the guy that filled it. Hazmat and tank filling, and gas blending certifications less than 2 years old.
Im sorry , what , you want me to take my what out of your shop??????
Are customers more trusting or are they sitting under a barrel?
I want to rent a regulator for the day
20 dollars, OK
Do you have the maintenance records on the reg.
Do you have a new mouth piece on it
May I see the certifications of those that did the last maintenance
May I see the training records of the guy that filled it. Hazmat and tank filling, and gas blending certifications less than 2 years old.
Im sorry , what , you want me to take my what out of your shop??????
Are customers more trusting or are they sitting under a barrel?
I haven't posted on here in like 5 years, but this thread was at the top of my trending threads in Tapatalk.
I just stopped by to let you know that I support people having the choice to act like grown ups, provided they are willing to accept the consequences. Having worked for several dive shops as an instructor, I get the liability piece. Having said that, since you felt it necessary to broadcast out your denial of service to the entire world, which managed to rank higher than my favorite Kimber 1911 forum, I noticed and I don't think it was a very nice move. This is like farting in church. Most people do it, but you don't announce it. You certainly don't ask if the people next to you deserved it.
I know your shop is near Evansville, and I will never be shopping there again. I will also steer my associates away from it as well. So now you have lost a few more customers.
You were probably better served by keeping this decision to yourself. That would have been, in my personal opinion, a classier move...like sneaking a fart in church and then looking as surprised as anyone else when you notice the odor. It wasn't me. I'm as shocked as you are.
See you in another 4 or 5 years SB, and you stay classy
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just stopped by to let you know that I support people having the choice to act like grown ups, provided they are willing to accept the consequences. Having worked for several dive shops as an instructor, I get the liability piece. Having said that, since you felt it necessary to broadcast out your denial of service to the entire world, which managed to rank higher than my favorite Kimber 1911 forum, I noticed and I don't think it was a very nice move. This is like farting in church. Most people do it, but you don't announce it. You certainly don't ask if the people next to you deserved it.
I know your shop is near Evansville, and I will never be shopping there again. I will also steer my associates away from it as well. So now you have lost a few more customers.
You were probably better served by keeping this decision to yourself. That would have been, in my personal opinion, a classier move...like sneaking a fart in church and then looking as surprised as anyone else when you notice the odor. It wasn't me. I'm as shocked as you are.
See you in another 4 or 5 years SB, and you stay classy
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have no issue with turning away the diver described in the OP from a liability perspective. I think it was the "right call" from an insurance and business perspective.
That said, over the entire time I've been reading scubaboard, I have seen a profound elitism, from the OP and some other posters, with respect to non-professional divers that would drive my business away from any of their respective shops/services. I doubt this elitism comes across in real life the same way it does on scubaboard and I'm sure these folks are very fine people that have the best of intentions. I would just like to point out this behavior in case they are unaware of their apparent elitism.
In nearly every thread I've read regarding training of any kind or incidents like the one described in this thread, these posters invariably argue that doing ANYTHING without "proper" (read paid instructor) training is bad bad bad. Diving to 130 with an OW cert? Bad. Diving swim throughs without a cave cert? Bad. Diving with uncertified divers? Bad. Diving doubles without a class. Bad. Diving old regs that aren't serviced by a pro. Bad. Pretty much anything that "requires training" should only be done with a certified pro, at least according to the opinions I've seen these folks put forth. That's fine, advocating a professional instructor. I am okay with that. What I find "elitist" and incredibly frustrating (and naive) is the fact that there is no middle ground for capable persons who aren't certified. For those who are, for whatever reason, comfortable in the water that can handle the skills immediately and grasp the physics (it's not particularly difficult for most people) and who actually remain active divers, progressing to more difficult diving (or passing on skills to other people) is natural and easy. To assume that those of us who are not pros are incapable of teaching is ridiculous to say the least. To imply we're somehow less safe in teaching is similarly ridiculous.
Using phrases like "Why are these people so willing to risk the safety of their loved ones?" is fear mongering at best. We all assume risk on a daily basis. I assume more risk driving my kids to school every day than I ever would putting them in a pool on SCUBA.
I understand coming from the perspective of doing things safely. I've been teaching "potentially fatal" activities for 20 years. SCUBA isn't to be taken lightly, any more than any other dangerous activity but let's not pretend that the dangers are more than they are, especially for OW diving in relatively benign waters.
As the annoying meme goes here on Scubaboard says "You don't know what you don't know." Stop assuming you know someone's capabilities simply because you think you know their certifications. Stop assuming that because people don't have a pro cert they don't know/understand what the risks are. Don't make the same mistake you're accusing them of making.
Dump the elitism and find a better way of servicing your customers.
/rant
That said, over the entire time I've been reading scubaboard, I have seen a profound elitism, from the OP and some other posters, with respect to non-professional divers that would drive my business away from any of their respective shops/services. I doubt this elitism comes across in real life the same way it does on scubaboard and I'm sure these folks are very fine people that have the best of intentions. I would just like to point out this behavior in case they are unaware of their apparent elitism.
In nearly every thread I've read regarding training of any kind or incidents like the one described in this thread, these posters invariably argue that doing ANYTHING without "proper" (read paid instructor) training is bad bad bad. Diving to 130 with an OW cert? Bad. Diving swim throughs without a cave cert? Bad. Diving with uncertified divers? Bad. Diving doubles without a class. Bad. Diving old regs that aren't serviced by a pro. Bad. Pretty much anything that "requires training" should only be done with a certified pro, at least according to the opinions I've seen these folks put forth. That's fine, advocating a professional instructor. I am okay with that. What I find "elitist" and incredibly frustrating (and naive) is the fact that there is no middle ground for capable persons who aren't certified. For those who are, for whatever reason, comfortable in the water that can handle the skills immediately and grasp the physics (it's not particularly difficult for most people) and who actually remain active divers, progressing to more difficult diving (or passing on skills to other people) is natural and easy. To assume that those of us who are not pros are incapable of teaching is ridiculous to say the least. To imply we're somehow less safe in teaching is similarly ridiculous.
Using phrases like "Why are these people so willing to risk the safety of their loved ones?" is fear mongering at best. We all assume risk on a daily basis. I assume more risk driving my kids to school every day than I ever would putting them in a pool on SCUBA.
I understand coming from the perspective of doing things safely. I've been teaching "potentially fatal" activities for 20 years. SCUBA isn't to be taken lightly, any more than any other dangerous activity but let's not pretend that the dangers are more than they are, especially for OW diving in relatively benign waters.
As the annoying meme goes here on Scubaboard says "You don't know what you don't know." Stop assuming you know someone's capabilities simply because you think you know their certifications. Stop assuming that because people don't have a pro cert they don't know/understand what the risks are. Don't make the same mistake you're accusing them of making.
Dump the elitism and find a better way of servicing your customers.
/rant
Last edited:
Basking Ridge Diver
Contributor
Bring out the popcorn... Lol
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