Novice diver plunge for Backplate and Wing?

[mac.calder]

I just don't get why some LDS' freak out - my LDS (admittedly) has a moderately strong technical backing - but also a very active rec section as well - the couple who founded the shop, one is PADI Master Instructor or Course Director or some such, the other is a TDI instructor trainer - and their staff are all strong in one aspect or the other.

I have seen them all with new divers who are asking for opinions regarding BCD's - the first thing they do is start explaining the different types - BP/W, soft harness/W, rear inflate jacket and the regular jacket. They explain how a lot of novice divers find the standard jacket makes them feel more supported - but it is a false sense of insecurity in a "rear inflate" situation that merely takes a few dives to get over. They generally push people more towards the DR transpac - as the entire system (including integrated weights - not sure why they push weight integration to be honest) - comes to slightly more than your mid range jacket - but the key thing is they encourage people to try different systems before buying.

It is that sort of customer service that means many of us are willing to pay a bit more than the online retailers because the shop treats it's customers so well.

Rocket Surgery it is not.

 

[fnfalman]

The Dive Rite Transpac (soft plate) is a lot better than a typical jacket BC. It was the first BC that I bought right out of OW, and I still have it. I use it whenever I travel because I can add or subtract weights as needed depending on the rental tank (or if I were to travel across the US in a vehicle, then I'd bring my own tanks).

However, for diving in California or cold water diving that requires a lot of lead, I prefer the BPW. Six pounds off the weight belt is still six pounds off the weight belt. Not to mention that the stiff plate does help hold the tank against my back without shifting.

 

[SangP]

Being a rational person, and reading posts here, I am leaning to the BP & W instead of a traditional jacket type BC. It's like a linux compared to a macbook. A bit difficult but rewarding in many respects.
Is it too radical for someone who just started, and used a rental jacket for his first two dives with an instructor?
(I am not planning on any extreme diving, mostly recreational and in warmer climates.)

Hi ChrisTull,

If you are only doing rec and warm rec at that, the alu bp/w is an awesome piece of gear and will last you for years n years and is one of the best ways to dive.

Ignore what your lds had said about needing specialized expensive regs and hoses for use with a bp/w.

I have gotten a few setups for friends of mine from Edd Sorenson and they have all loved their gear:
Back Plate and Wings packages
The only think I have altered was an OMS plate instead of the diverite.

The complete rigs of Deep Sea Supply is awesome too:
https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?page=rigs
A Kydex plate is pretty durable too.

If you are into DIY, you could get the DSS glide system, drill some holes into the plates and reinforce the weight distribution with large ss washers.
https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?product=1340

I'm planning to do it to my alu OMS and custom travel plate.

I would advice you speak to both Edd and Tobin to have a better understanding of their gear and recommendations. Edd also sells Hog regs and I'm sure you'll get a great price from him.

Not to be sway you away from the dark side of the bp/w path but the SM route is also worth considering.

xDEEP - Side Mount Stealth 2.0 - full set; Side Mount Harness with Buoyancy Compensator

This is a full SM setup that has 16Kg lift in the wing and is more then enuff for a lot of your tropical warm water rec dives and without heavy twin manifolds, ss bands etc you'll be able to dive in a twin sidemount even with alu 80s

Check out video 13 at the gosidemount site on demo in a razor harness.
Go Side Mount - Steve Bogaerts & HP Hartmann
http://gosidemount.com/Razor/

Cheers,

 

[mainedvr]

Nope not to radical and very easy to use once its set up. I wish I would have known about it before I went with a jacket style, would have saved me a few bucks.

Being a rational person, and reading posts here, I am leaning to the BP & W instead of a traditional jacket type BC. It's like a linux compared to a macbook. A bit difficult but rewarding in many respects.
Is it too radical for someone who just started, and used a rental jacket for his first two dives with an instructor?
(I am not planning on any extreme diving, mostly recreational and in warmer climates.)

 

[Diver0001]

Nope not to radical and very easy to use once its set up. I wish I would have known about it before I went with a jacket style, would have saved me a few bucks.

Actually, the waste of money is when people replace a perfectly good jacket because they fell for the internet hype.

People who come on the internet raving about how a BP/W made a world of difference to their diving are people who still don't have their buoyancy control and trim sorted out. Does a BP/W fix that? No. Buoyancy and trim are skills issues. A BP/W *can* make it easier to dive for someone with poor buoyancy and trim because of the basket and blimp configuration. In some cases it can be more stable but it doesn't solve the skills problem.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with jacket style BCD's. There is nothing wrong with BP/W BCDs either. Both perform the same function and both do it perfectly adequately.

Take a look at my profile picture and the picture I have in my gallery of me swimming with a dolphin. I'm wearing a jacket in both of those. Do I look like a mess?

I think I have a clear view on this because I own both a jacket and a BP/W and I dive intensively in both of them. They feel different but I don't believe either of them is a poor choice. These discussions do irritate me because the people with the biggest mouths about BP/W are people who either don't (or never did) own a jacket or people who would recommend buying more (or different) gear for solving a skills issue.

R..

 

[SangP]

Actually, the waste of money is when people replace a perfectly good jacket because they fell for the internet hype.

People who come on the internet raving about how a BP/W made a world of difference to their diving are people who still don't have their buoyancy control and trim sorted out. Does a BP/W fix that? No. Buoyancy and trim are skills issues. A BP/W *can* make it easier to dive for someone with poor buoyancy and trim because of the basket and blimp configuration. In some cases it can be more stable but it doesn't solve the skills problem.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with jacket style BCD's. There is nothing wrong with BP/W BCDs either. Both perform the same function and both do it perfectly adequately.

Take a look at my profile picture and the picture I have in my gallery of me swimming with a dolphin. I'm wearing a jacket in both of those. Do I look like a mess?

I think I have a clear view on this because I own both a jacket and a BP/W and I dive intensively in both of them. They feel different but I don't believe either of them is a poor choice. These discussions do irritate me because the people with the biggest mouths about BP/W are people who either don't (or never did) own a jacket or people who would recommend buying more (or different) gear for solving a skills issue.

R..

Very true however, the part that he just started and rented a jacket for the first 2 dives kidda suggests that he doesn't own a bcd yet.

 

[rhwestfall]

I just don't get why some LDS' freak out.

for the same reason that they do when any other lost revenue becomes apparent....

Keep in mind, they have set their business model on the fluffy eye candy where profit margins are quite healthy. Sure, its easy to adapt a jacket to anyone in class (not that it fits right, but close enough), and the false sense of security they provide on the surface appeals to the uncertain person entering the water realm of diving for the first time. And, new models of BCs constantly come out, so more sales becomes apparent, and profit potential becomes better. Little has evolved in the BP/W realm, aside from other brands entering the foray. Lets see, $50 if you need to replace webbing, and $250 if you need a new wing. Compare that to having to replace a complete BC assembly....

The sales pitch is "this is really comfortable compared to that cold hard plate...." In the water it isn't an advantage, and that is where you dive, not in the shop's sales floor....

 

[Diver0001]

the false sense of security they provide on the surface appeals to the uncertain person entering the water realm of diving for the first time.

This is exactly the kind of flaming 5-alarm BS that gets under my skin.

R..

 

[rhwestfall]

This is exactly the kind of flaming 5-alarm BS that gets under my skin.

R..

but it is exactly what "flaming 5-alarm BS" that is being sold. I am first hand witness to it just about any time I'm in a shop and someone [new] is getting the sales pitch...

---------- Post Merged at 09:00 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:50 AM ----------

Heck, I learned on a horse collar with a hard pack, bought a jacket BC, then a back-inflate, and now a BP/W over 24 years. None are perfect, but the reasons are not what are driving the sales....

---------- Post Merged at 09:01 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:50 AM ----------

look at his other comments - he was told he needed "tech regulators to dive a BP/W"..... WTF?

 

[Diver0001]

You're saying that a BCD provides a false sense of security.

When was the last time you went to buy something and the sales person said, "here... buy this, it will give you a false sense of security".

Now where is the "not like" button? People say crap like this a lot an there's no way to flag it.

R..