Octopus and long hoses questions???

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

i agree with nemrod.
some of these post do not discuss issues with solo diving.
however, dugout does present valid observations.
maybe he could post in the dir forum.
his view on why dir divers are always bashing rec divers seems to make sense.

question.
if a diver who is on holiday, staying on a liveaboard and is diving solo, could carry a second octo in case one of the other "guests" has problems?
or would you rather the solo diver give the troubled diver his pony?
either way the dive would be "called".
 
Nemrod:
Again, this is the SOLO forum so why are we discussing buddy breathing or long hoses here? I f your solo you don't need an octapus on any length of hose, short, medium or long--your solo---you don't have a buddy. The octapus is not redundancy, it's only purpose is supplying a buddy with air when he/she has had a problem which you don't have because your solo. Redundancy, when needed by the solo diver, entails the use of independent systems, buddy bottle, independent doubles, isolation manifolded doubles etc--NOT an octapus.

I believe this thread belongs here because this is a SOLO issue. Even if we are diving with a buddy, we are solo diving when we render assistance to a stranger. We are all solo diver, in this respect. Many solo dives are in the vicinity of of other divers, right. The textbook buddy system can, and does, breakdown very quickly and then we are solo divers.
 
dugout:
I believe this thread belongs here because this is a SOLO issue. Even if we are diving with a buddy, we are solo diving when we render assistance to a stranger. We are all solo diver, in this respect. Many solo dives are in the vicinity of of other divers, right. The textbook buddy system can, and does, breakdown very quickly and then we are solo divers.

Also some of us solo divers use a short-hose long-hose system. I dive with doubles and use the standard DIR setup with the 7 foot hose. Those DIR guys are always reminding me that the most important DIR concept is your *team*, though. Hee hee. Can you be a team of 1?
 
smokey braden:
i agree with nemrod.
some of these post do not discuss issues with solo diving.
however, dugout does present valid observations.
maybe he could post in the dir forum.
his view on why dir divers are always bashing rec divers seems to make sense.

Again, all divers are solo divers when assisting a stranger. The diver is in trouble is solo since his buddy is not in position to perform his buddy duties.
Posting my opinion in the DIR forum would be pointless. I am a "nothing" and a product of "inferior training". I offer nothing but another outsider's opinion.:wink:

smokey braden:
question.
if a diver who is on holiday, staying on a liveaboard and is diving solo, could carry a second octo in case one of the other "guests" has problems?
or would you rather the solo diver give the troubled diver his pony?
either way the dive would "called".

This is a very good question. In this day and age, most boats require an octopus and some require an alt air source, (pony). I do not dive an octopus unless I go south. Then it is on a second 28" hose, on a 3mm bungee around my neck. Again, my air, my rules.
I am doing a pony before spring but it will be strapped to my primary tank, inverted, I think. This would not lend itself to be given away, but then one just gave away their own back up air supply. I don't feel putting ones self in jeopardy is ever an option.
It's specifically the long hose for solo situations, as outlined, that I question.
 
DeepBound:
Also some of us solo divers use a short-hose long-hose system. I dive with doubles and use the standard DIR setup with the 7 foot hose. Those DIR guys are always reminding me that the most important DIR concept is your *team*, though. Hee hee. Can you be a team of 1?

Again, there is nothing wrong with the team concept. I have been fortunate to be a member of many *teams*, mostly athletic. Some go through life and never experience being part of a team or knowing what it is to be part of a team and feeling like one "belongs". For most people, diving represents something very different and a more casual individualism. Neither is wrong but the differences are stark. I don't dive to push limits. I dive for fun and fun for me is a more relaxed situation.
 
dugout:
Again, there is nothing wrong with the team concept. I have been fortunate to be a member of many *teams*, mostly athletic. Some go through life and never experience being part of a team or knowing what it is to be part of a team and feeling like one "belongs". For most people, diving represents something very different and a more casual individualism. Neither is wrong but the differences are stark. I don't dive to push limits. I dive for fun and fun for me is a more relaxed situation.

OK. I find the 7-foot long hose more of a pain in the neck than anything when solo diving. I have it set up that way because it seems like the typical way to set up doubles, at least around here, and when I do dive with other more serious divers I need to have that setup.
 
I dive solo and with buddies at different times so of course I will always dive with the same configuration. When I dive solo it's from my boat and I'm wearing doubles with a reg on each post of course. If you're diving with a single the 2nd reg is handy for (the albeit more rare) 2nd stage failure. Close off the bad 2nd stage and use the other. Also of course for the instance when you are diving solo and come across a stranger in need of help.

I use a long hose as my first primary and I too want to keep people close in case of emergency. When they are calm it's more convenient to have the long hose or if you are in a wreck or if you want to get behind them as mentioned previously.

My .02

--Matt
 
when solo diving I carry a redundant air source (30 cuft). I don't see a need for an octo as well since I have a redundant second stage. Should an unexpected "buddy" show up needing air I can easily unclip my slung bottle and allow the stressed diver to choose a calm ascent with me or if they go into panic mode I'll get my gear back when I get on the boat. I am always willing to help another diver but my safety comes first.
 
dugout:
Here is my take on the hyper tech diving initiatives. From what I have read. The entire concept, from equipment universalizing, through training, into the Zen aspects of the psyche, to certifications, (read as ranks), all emulate elite military training. This is what you take, this is where you put it; everyone on the team has a job and responsibilities. You do this, you act like this, and yes, you think like this. The team is only as strong as its weakest link, etc. There is nothing unique here. Technical climbers saw the virtues of this type of team training concept way before divers. Wana climb a mountain? Join our team.

I have had the distinct honor of spending time with many of our hardest special OPS troops. These boys and girls are awesome, but there are some draw backs to this type of training and what it takes to produce these troops.

Mainly, these troops DO NOT play well with others, outside of the team. When the team and your teammates are everything...well, anything outside of the team and your teammates are... well, nothing. This is unsettling to those who are "nothing". Everyone can’t be on the team, nor would they want to be. These troops are intolerant regarding “lesser” training and tend to trivialize the lesser training regimes. How could the discipline ever be perpetuated unless a certain elitism doesn’t accompany the efforts. It’s a simple matter of contrast. How could spec ops training, and troops be considered “better” unless the other training and troops are considered “worse”?

I am not judging, here. My intent is not to disparage the concept of Elite training. The fact is, the military acknowledges the issues, and this is why most spec ops units are isolated from the rank and file troops. In fact they do nothing to change the attitude of elite troops. What they do is to teach the general troops, in contact with them, how to deal with the issues. As an over simplification, …yes the dogs have an attitude and we want them that way. This is how to deal with the dogs…, type of thing.

Now back to diving. This type of individual training and commitment may be appropriate when it comes to deco deep cave, or deep wreck diving, just as it was to tech climbing. I don’t know as I don’t aspire to either type of diving. It is evident that those who do count themselves in these groups sometimes do not play well with others on this web site and sometimes trivialize typical recreational divers, and general dive training. Given my background, I will always excuse the behavior, knowing it is unavoidable. What I do have a problem with is taking a single isolated equipment configuration, like a 7 foot reg hose, and proposing that this is the most appropriate configuration for all recreational divers, based upon their personal training. This is just wrong!!! What is appropriate for the Team concept of diving, with well know skills in your teammate, may not be for a recreational diver who may find themselves assisting a complete stranger in a potential life threatening situation. Solo diving has a different set of challenges and one of them is being ready and prepared to assist a total stranger, SAFELY!!!

Although not solo related this post is the best I have ever seen on the DIR and non DIR
issue.
 
First of all a disclaimer regarding my attitude:
My first "solo" dive was in the first dozen I had ever done. It was a night dive when my "buddy" failed to respond to my signals and, being a faster swimmer, left me alone many, many feet from anyone else. Fortunately I have done a lot of serious things other than diving. So, after a brief inventory I decided I was still breathing, that all was well and I went on with the dive. Since then I consider ALL dives to utimately be solo dives.

Even when doing Team Diving I recognize that my fellow team member in fact has no more responsibility for my welfare than they choose to take.

On to Why Long Hose:
1. I want options. A long hose gives me options when assisting someone else. I can be close, distant and any position within the three dimensional space.
2. I want to dive with the same kit no matter the situation. Due to geography I must do my diving in batches. it is a real advantage to always dive the same kit.
3. The short hose bungeed around my neck is sort of protected against the predation of a panicked diver. So, even if my primary is grabbed from behind I still have access to a regulator.
4. The mouthpiece zip tie on my long hose is not very tight. So, if the panicky grabbor heads for the surface with my long hose in their mouth I've some time and some chance to just yank the hose out of their mouth.

BUT, I don't think there is one answer that is correct for all. These are just my reasons for doing what I do.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Back
Top Bottom