old school or young fool?

[nova]

What critical failures do you see?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

1. placement of the SPG on the right hip D-ring. Takes too many steps for a diver to check gas and isn't visable to buddies (so they know your gas supply)

2 buckle placement , the buckles are placed on every diver the same so the divers buddy can remove the rig in an emergency?. I would never even try to go for a buckle in an emergency. I'd go for my shears to cut the gear off. this crosses every agency and gear configuration. don't look for any buckle! just get to cutting

3. rock bottom calcs, way to much math and there are easier ways to make sure the team has enough gas.

4.false sense of security. just because you've trained with the same agency doesn't mean you can count on another diver being there when you need them .

5. the pony bottle theory. If you don't need it don't take it ????? how does anyone know the outcome of any dive? I think if you might need it take it , it's your life.

6. no solo diving. well everyone should be able to solo dive . self reliance is a must underwater.

there is more, but that should do for now. no need to get into gasses , decos or any other issues that come to mind

 

[boomx5]

1. placement of the SPG on the right hip D-ring. Takes too many steps for a diver to check gas and isn't visable to buddies (so they know your gas supply)

2 buckle placement , the buckles are placed on every diver the same so the divers buddy can remove the rig in an emergency?. I would never even try to go for a buckle in an emergency. I'd go for my shears to cut the gear off. this crosses every agency and gear configuration. don't look for any buckle! just get to cutting

3. rock bottom calcs, way to much math and there are easier ways to make sure the team has enough gas.

4.false sense of security. just because you've trained with the same agency doesn't mean you can count on another diver being there when you need them .

5. the pony bottle theory. If you don't need it don't take it ????? how does anyone know the outcome of any dive? I think if you might need it take it , it's your life.

6. no solo diving. well everyone should be able to solo dive . self reliance is a must underwater.

there is more, but that should do for now. no need to get into gasses , decos or any other issues that come to mind

You are off on all of your points. I'm late for a meeting right now or I would address them, but I'm sure someone will get to them while I'm gone.

 

[nova]

You are off on all of your points. I'm late for a meeting right now or I would address them, but I'm sure someone will get to them while I'm gone.

that's DIR to the core.


here's what I like about DIR training, (I'll be off on all points here as well)

1 . silt control, I do like divers that show some respect for the viz.

2. hose routing on doubles. now this was well thought out.

3. bungied backup, after seeing an octo float behind a diver and freeflow without the diver knowing , this gear config is well thought out also.

4. light signals, this is good

5.trim and buoancy control. this is basic to all diving and has been overlooked by most agencies.

this is a short list of things about DIR that I have adapted to my diving and work well for me. even though I learned them in agency I still like the fact that there taught in the DIR material

this is an example of my openmindedness. I don't disagree with all thing DIR, just some.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

1. placement of the SPG on the right hip D-ring. Takes too many steps for a diver to check gas and isn't visable to buddies (so they know your gas supply)

Hmmm ... DIR teaches placement of the SPG on the left hip D-ring ... there isn't a D-ring on the right side, because that's where you mount your light canister. Checking gas supply is really pretty simple ... and unnecessary except as an occasional sanity check if you're paying attention to what's going on during your dive. If my buddy wants to know my gas pressure, they only need to ask.

2 buckle placement , the buckles are placed on every diver the same so the divers buddy can remove the rig in an emergency?. I would never even try to go for a buckle in an emergency. I'd go for my shears to cut the gear off. this crosses every agency and gear configuration. don't look for any buckle! just get to cutting

I don't think your assumption is correct ... I was taught that in an emergency you cut the diver out of the harness.

3. rock bottom calcs, way to much math and there are easier ways to make sure the team has enough gas.

Such as?

4.false sense of security. just because you've trained with the same agency doesn't mean you can count on another diver being there when you need them .

If you can't count on your buddy to be there for you, then you are not diving with a DIR diver ... regardless of what training they have received.

5. the pony bottle theory. If you don't need it don't take it ????? how does anyone know the outcome of any dive? I think if you might need it take it , it's your life.

I'll let someone else address that one ...

6. no solo diving. well everyone should be able to solo dive . self reliance is a must underwater.

Self-reliance and solo diving are two entirely different subjects ... and not necessarily related.

Thank you for your responses ... this may, after all, turn out to be a thought-provoking topic ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[JeffG]

1. placement of the SPG on the right hip D-ring. Takes too many steps for a diver to check gas and isn't visable to buddies (so they know your gas supply)

(If you are talking about the left side ...I didn't catch that the first time)
Its a nice clean spot for it. The SPG is a backup anyways. I shouldn't have to be checking my buddies spg. I am not a babysitter, I'm a teammate. He should be able to do it himself...and I expect him to do so and not lie about it.

2 buckle placement , the buckles are placed on every diver the same so the divers buddy can remove the rig in an emergency?. I would never even try to go for a buckle in an emergency. I'd go for my shears to cut the gear off. this crosses every agency and gear configuration. don't look for any buckle! just get to cutting

Cutting off rig in an emergency isn't DIR? Where did you learn that?

3. rock bottom calcs, way to much math and there are easier ways to make sure the team has enough gas.

After you get the concept, you will end up with 3 or 4 numbers to remember. Not a tough thing. The math demonstrates an understanding of the issues involved, but in the real world, a couple of numbers you have remembered do the trick.

4.false sense of security. just because you've trained with the same agency doesn't mean you can count on another diver being there when you need them .

Who says they are trained by the same agency? But beside that, you only do a dive that the weakest member of the team is capable of and all the teammates have bought into the idea that they are a team. This is the biggest thing with DIR but is the hardest to describe.

Being a buddy doesn't mean you are a babysitter (aka...your SPG issue) or being babysat. Anything you do, you must ask yourself "What impact does my action do to the team?"

You want to take a peek in a room and your the second guy in a single file....Do you just stop and take a peek or do you signal your buddy to hold while you poke your head in? Which one do you think is the "DIR" solution?

5. the pony bottle theory. If you don't need it don't take it ????? how does anyone know the outcome of any dive? I think if you might need it take it , it's your life.

What problems are you solving with a piece of gear?
What Problems do you create by taking this piece of Gear?
Can another Piece of Gear solve the same issue (and what problems does it create)?
What is the probability of the Problems being solved?
What are the consequence of the problem(s)?
Can training (or a procedure) be used in place of this gear to solve the problem?

Every piece of gear should be put through those questions. Then it becomes obvious what should/should not be taken on a dive.

6. no solo diving. well everyone should be able to solo dive . self reliance is a must underwater.

No one says that a diver cannot be self reliant, but that doesn't mean you should dive solo. Do you see the difference here?

 

[nova]

Hmmm ... DIR teaches placement of the SPG on the left hip D-ring ... there isn't a D-ring on the right side, because that's where you mount your light canister. Checking gas supply is really pretty simple ... and unnecessary except as an occasional sanity check if you're paying attention to what's going on during your dive. If my buddy wants to know my gas pressure, they only need to ask.


I don't think your assumption is correct ... I was taught that in an emergency you cut the diver out of the harness.


Such as?


If you can't count on your buddy to be there for you, then you are not diving with a DIR diver ... regardless of what training they have received.


I'll let someone else address that one ...


Self-reliance and solo diving are two entirely different subjects ... and not necessarily related.

Thank you for your responses ... this may, after all, turn out to be a thought-provoking topic ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

my bad on the D-ring thing. you are right about it being on the left. This brings up the question of the number of D-rings on the DIR harness. why? as in, why can't divers place rings were they want? what would be dangerous about a D-ring in front of the light can ?

 

[pants!]

Did you know that ALL the skills taught in DIR-F can also be learned in the NSS-CDS cavern course? It's all there, GEAR , TRIM , SILT CONTROL, GAS PLANNING, LIGHT AND HAND SIGNALS, all of it.

If all the DIR stuff is taught by NSS, IANTD, etc, how can so much of it be wrong?

 

[JeffG]

what would be dangerous about a D-ring in front of the light can ?

a) Its not needed.
b) In the bad old days of big huge can lights, you wouldn't be able to get rid of it (the light) if you needed to. So then some Hog guy would then say..."Well, lets just move the light can" etc etc, and then you end up with some weird configuration....so we go back to a)

 

[Tamas]

a) Its not needed.
b) In the bad old days of big huge can lights, you wouldn't be able to get rid of it (the light) if you needed to. So then some Hog guy would then say..."Well, lets just move the light can" etc etc, and then you end up with some weird configuration....so we go back to a)

Where do you clip your reels?

 

[nova]

a) Its not needed.
b) In the bad old days of big huge can lights, you wouldn't be able to get rid of it (the light) if you needed to. So then some Hog guy would then say..."Well, lets just move the light can" etc etc, and then you end up with some weird configuration....so we go back to a)

weird as in "your cans on the right but the lightheads in the left hand " or weird as in " whatever task at hand can be handled with the D-rings that you have, so don't add one". It's just a D-ring. Maybe for a camera, catchbag, quick place to clip a reefhook?