Other "Cave" agencies and GUE.

[Jason B]

Presumably the explanation would be that the DIR harness cuts off circulation at the shoulders...

GUE/DIR does not own the single piece of continuous webbing for a harness.
Plenty of cave divers from all different agencies have used this for many years.

xiSkiGuy, did you bother to explain your reasoning for the way you had you gear rigged (or could you?).

Really curious as to who this instructor was. I have an idea as I've heard of the right D-ring requirement before and that instructor had a good reason actually. It may not be one you agree with but I'll bet had you not been hanging out here in the DIR forum on SB you would have been more open to his reasoning. Also remember that DIR wanted quick breakaway connections on things like SPG's at one time so even GUE thought it was a good idea once.

The padded harness bit is a bit weird I must say....

One more question....
Now that the class is over, despite the gear differences, did you gain anything out of the class? Skills? Remember, you can always change your gear to whatever gear configuration you want to now that the class is over.

Welcome to the overhead world! When are we going diving!

 

[roakey]

He also preferred a padded adjustable harness over a hog harness (something about skin bends in the shoulders????).

Hal Watts spoke at TDI's first annual cave conference and I remember him netioning that in the "old days" they'd attach milk jugs with loops of rope under their arms/shoulders for buoyancy (adding air to the jugs) and that they'd sometimes get mild bends in their arms because of the poor circulation.

Of course, if you're horizontal (and your harness is adjusted correctly) the doubles are bearing down on your back, and the straps do just about zero, so they would not cause a circulation problem.

Roger

 

[lamont]

GUE/DIR does not own the single piece of continuous webbing for a harness.
Plenty of cave divers from all different agencies have used this for many years.

Never implied that GUE or DIR does own the idea of a single cointinuous band of webbing. But there clearly is a "DIR harness". There is also a "single piece of continuous webbing hogarthian harness". Both of those harnesses are in actuality the same. One of them is much shorter to type, however.

 

[WaterDawg]

But there clearly is a "DIR harness". There is also a "single piece of continuous webbing hogarthian harness". Both of those harnesses are in actuality the same. One of them is much shorter to type, however.

HAHAHA!!!!

 

[Jason B]

Never implied that GUE or DIR does own the idea of a single cointinuous band of webbing. But there clearly is a "DIR harness". There is also a "single piece of continuous webbing hogarthian harness". Both of those harnesses are in actuality the same. One of them is much shorter to type, however.

And has blue H's on it.

Just playing with ya lamont.

 

[lamont]

And has blue H's on it.

Just playing with ya lamont.

i know =)

 

[H2Andy]

@ H2Andy and other who have trained with multiple cave agencies: What attitudes have you encountered? Did your instructors allow DIR gear configurations in class or did they suggest/require adjustments?

generally speaking, DIR divers are seen (right or wrong) as johnnie-come-latelies
with more cash to spend on equipment than common sense

DIR divers are generally perceived as "unfriendly" because they "only dive with
other DIR" divers

i've gotten (friendly) flack for having passed DIR-F from otherwise very
nice divers eyebrow

other than a computer, my setup is strictly DIR. i have gotten no comments on the equipment or configuration. it's never been an issue on the three cave
classes i've taken so far (cavern, cave intro, apprentice)

i think some cave divers down here see DIR (and DIR divers) as telling everyone
else that no one can dive well if they're not DIR (right or wrong).

i think this has a lot to do with the cave diver's ignorance and insecurities.
many cave divers don't have either issue.

if 0 were work-place friendly and 100 were Nazi Germany persecuting the Jews, i'd say any "hostility" towards DIR divers is about a 10 to 20 ... not bad at all, actually.

 

[Jasonmh]

... It may not be one you agree with but I'll bet had you not been hanging out here in the DIR forum on SB you would have been more open to his reasoning...

Dude, seriously, do you ever take that anti-DIR/GUE/H chip off your shoulder?
Nowhere did he say that he was not open to hearing and/or considering a reason for the right D-ring. MAYBE, he listened to the ideas and decided that he prefered it another way, nothing wrong with that. His instructor ALLOWED him to decide his own configuration. I think that if his instructor was ok with it, that maybe you could be too. And I think that it is odd that when talking about an agency that does let you do your own thing, that someone would be getting a hard time for not matching his gear to what his instructor has.

I would have said that if you spent more time listening and learning in this forum and less time jumping to conclusions and putting other people down you might learn something that would help you.. but then I'D be jumping to conclusions..

 

[Jason B]

Dude, seriously, do you ever take that anti-DIR/GUE/H chip off your shoulder?
Nowhere did he say that he was not open to hearing and/or considering a reason for the right D-ring. MAYBE, he listened to the ideas and decided that he prefered it another way, nothing wrong with that. His instructor ALLOWED him to decide his own configuration. I think that if his instructor was ok with it, that maybe you could be too. And I think that it is odd that when talking about an agency that does let you do your own thing, that someone would be getting a hard time for not matching his gear to what his instructor has.

I would have said that if you spent more time listening and learning in this forum and less time jumping to conclusions and putting other people down you might learn something that would help you.. but then I'D be jumping to conclusions..

LOL!

I don't have a GUE/DIR/H chip on my shoulder. I've owned some H gear (still own some), most of it had problems so when someone asks about it, I tell them my experience. As for GUE and DIR, I have no problem with that either. I know some great guys that are GUE divers. They entertain my questions all the time and we all learn from each other regardless of whether we decide to actually use it.

I was really interested in taking some GUE classes. Corresponded with Dave Sweetin quite a bit and was in the process of setting up a local class, but the more I surfed SB, the more I got turned off.

In all seriousness, I don't care for the right D-ring but I know instructors that do and they have a good reason for it despite your and my views on it. Their class, they can teach the way they want. A student should check out their prospective instructors before hand. I agree that he should be able to dive how ever he wants. If that is DIR, then fine, I have zero problem with that. Once class was over all he has to do is change his gear back. As for the instructor want his students gear to match his, isn't that one of the DIR philosophies? All team members in the same configuration?

Sorry if I appeared to be putting him (or DIR) down. Sure wasn't my intent. I was actually trying to support him when I asked him if he explained his reasoning for his gear configuration to his instructor. I figured that if he could give a valid reason his instructor would be fine (mine was).

I see that you and I agree on one thing....our screen name (first 5 letters anyway).

 

[padiscubapro]

I don't really think its an agency vs angency deal.. I think its more of a perception problem diver to diver.. There are some very vocal DIR divers that go preaching to folks that have been diving longer than them, and they make the whole movement look very bad and put a bad taste in many peoples mouths...

I have been "lectured" by some dir folks that I amgoing to kill myself.. This from divers that have only a few years experience and think their S**t don't stink because the have gue tech? certs...

I personally don;t agree with some of the aspects of DIR, but that comes from years of personal experience, and I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong, I FIRMLY believe there is never one way to do anything..

For the record I di my original cave training in 1993 (around the time JJ just started diving) with nss-cds, some of what I was show is today's DIR style some is not..

I *LOVE* getting lectured by some yahoo with 3 or 4 years of experience and has never done any real deep or long dives..
I remeber getting lectured how unsafe it was doing 2 hours of deco in the ocean.... Personally I think thats a walk in the park...