Outrage after inhospitality - no rooms for Cubans

[RonDawg]

Yes that was a famous statement in Europe and if my memory serves me correctly in Japan also.

There's a MAJOR difference between what the Hilton Group has done, and what WWII-era Germany and Japan have done. Not even close.

 

[RonDawg]

The govt will fine you $10k if they catch you circumventing US regulations by catching a flight through a third country to Cuba. That's the only country that I know of that the govt won't allow you to visit.

North Korea is also another "no-go" country for Americans, with few exceptions. I think there's a couple of others as well. The list used to be a lot larger before the Berlin Wall came down.

I would love to visit Cuba. I hear there's some great diving over there But alas, it'll have to wait until at least Fidel croaks

 

[Cacia]

you can fly in from Martinque. (if you wanted too) (I heard)


I am more worried about what Cuba would do with me once I got there, maybe we should ask Andy. Those Cubanos I saw in Ft Chaffe sure didn't look like they got any hospitality in Cuba. tongues cut out, fingers hacked off, graffiti political tattoes on their faces...

don't ya'll have bigger things to get worked up about? There are a lot of human rights violations that could use your gusto, other than somebody couldn't stay in some hotel. Infanticide?...for one?

...whaling.

 

[RonDawg]

It's not that it's IMPOSSIBLE for an American to go to Cuba (many go via Mexico), it's just that it's not legal for us to do so, and as stated you can get socked with a pretty hefty fine if you're caught.

I hear that Cuban immigration officials won't stamp American passports for that reason. They may not like us, but they sure like our money!! Apparently, quite a few Americans secretly visit Cuba every year.

Of course, if you encounter "difficulties" over there, you're pretty much SOL.

 

[Cacia]

There's a MAJOR difference between what the Hilton Group has done, and what WWII-era Germany and Japan have done. Not even close.

hello? thank-you.

sigh. real world people, think real world.

Of course, if you encounter "difficulties" over there, you're pretty much SOL.

exactly. don't be cryin for Condi. she's busy. (and she did not exactly help poor Dog, either, btw.) sending him back to MEXICO, for detaining a serial convicted rapist...give me a break.

 

[stu_in_fl]

In a similar case in Mexico the Sheraton Maria Isabel Hotel in Mexico City to pay a $112,000 fine for expelling 16 Cuban quests due to the boycott.

......so, if a hotel breaks the law of the local country they get prosecuted (and fined) and if they don't then they are (or it appears they are) breaking US law, they probably get prosecuted and fined over in the US.....

 

[RonDawg]

In a similar case in Mexico the Sheraton Maria Isabel Hotel in Mexico City to pay a $112,000 fine for expelling 16 Cuban quests due to the boycott.

......so, if a hotel breaks the law of the local country they get prosecuted (and fined) and if they don't then they are (or it appears they are) breaking US law, they probably get prosecuted and fined over in the US.....

That's the point I'm trying to make. Hilton (and apparently Sheraton too) are stuck in a difficult position. No matter what they do, they end up breaking someone's laws.

In the end they'll end up choosing the route that hurts the least. $112k is pocket change to a company like Sheraton, but the consequences would probably be a lot more if they decided to violate US law instead.

 

[RonDawg]

exactly. don't be cryin for Condi. she's busy. (and she did not exactly help poor Dog, either, btw.) sending him back to MEXICO, for detaining a serial convicted rapist...give me a break.

Reminds of the time I got a call at the station from someone who was arrested in Mexico (Tijuana or Ensenada I think) and was DEMANDING that as both a US citizen, and a resident of my city, that I MUST go help him.

Once visions of the movie "Midnight Express" stopped playing in my head, all I could do was offer to look up the number of the US Embassy for him, and I explained that as he was in a foreign country, there was nothing more than I can do to assist him.

He wasn't happy with that and hung up on me before I could look up the number for him I wonder if he's still in that jail? :11:

I have VERY strong feelings about our extradition treaty with Mexico (and for that matter, Canada as well). I'm not happy that Mexico has long harbored a cop killer (and the cop he murdered was from a department here in LA as well) and refused to give him back until we made some considerable concessions, yet we happily handed over Dog without so much as a peep for an offense that was far less serious

 

[Kim]

ugh...where have I been all day?

so, Kim, if a country is a blatant human right's violator, do you think privately held businesses have the right to "boycott" them? Much the way some consumers boycott businesses that damage the environment or if a business wants to not serve the clan..do they have that perogative?

just asking....

As an American national, I don't think I am even allowed in some countries.

I'm not quite sure of your point. this isn't about Cuba - it's about an American company going somewhere and then breaking the law when they get there. It's probably also not about boycotts. As far as I understand from reading your posts in other threads you are a total supporter of spending your money to reward those you agree with, and punish those you don't. Why would you deny the Norwegians the same right?
This whole argument/justification that somehow American law is more important than anyone else's (or the consequences are heavier or whatever), so they can just pay the fine and ignore it for the rest, and that somehow we have to see Hilton as "poor things" and basically the Norwegians should "understand" the "difficulties" that exist, and ignore the fact that their laws are getting trashed in the process is to my mind the epitome of perceived US arrogance at it's worst, and exactly the kind of cause for increasing US unpopularity around the world. It's obvious from just this thread though that it's not a standpoint shared by all Americans by a very long way. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it's awful that stuff like this ends up tainting completely innocent people, but unfair or not get used to it because it happens - much like the old British reputation along the Mediterranean for being a bunch of pot-bellied, sun burnt, uncouth beer drinkers with no understanding what a proper meal should consist of was applied to all British before they even opened their mouths.

It's really simple - "When in Rome do as the Romans do." or in this case...Oslo.

On the topic of comparing the actions of Germany and Japan with those of the Hilton group, of course they aren't comparable. The underlying reasoning behind the justification is however. It's a matter of scale. but principally the same.

 

[SDAnderson]

Before we rise to the defense of the official representatives of an oppressive and totalitarian regime, let's remember that they weren't shot, they just had to find another place to sleep. Ouch. If the outrage they suffered left a mark, it's more likely from bad mattresses at the Reindeer Inn than from the jackboots of American diplomacy.

The U.S. boycott has been ineffective and continuing it is nothing more than a self-perpetuating exercise in futility. We can be stupid that way. A large part of the reason it has been ineffective, however, lies in the fact that so many governments (and people) care less about the trampling the Cubans are enduring at the hands of Castro and his band of delusional antiquarian socialists than they do about the opportunity to tweak the Americans while making a few krone. Or loonies.

My suggestion to the Norwegians? Relax and wait it out. You'd like to sell the Cubans some oil but all they have to pay with is a little sugar and some beaches. Give it a couple of years and the US embargo will be over - Castro will be writhing in Hell, his brother will retire to one of the few remaining Workers Paradises (Caracas? Managua? Harare?) and the gringos will be back on the island in force, led by hundreds of thousands of expat Cubanos that have been biding their time in South Florida. We speak the language, know the culture, and have the money to buy the sugar fields and turn them into golf courses and condos. Ten or fifteen years from now Castro will be nothing but a scary memory to frighten little children with and Cuba will be a first class tourist destination, with a real economy and the attending thirst for oil - that's the big payday for Norway.

The best part of all this will come when the Canadians and Europeans that have spent their vacations commiserating with the proletariat while ignoring the fact that their fun in the sun wouldn't be possible if it weren't for the slaves laboring on their behalf have to start looking for a new place that the Americans haven't overrun. Good luck!

To our friends in Norway (and Japan) who are upset about this, let me make this suggestion: rather than being mad at us for treating bad people with disdain, maybe you could do something important - like mustering the willpower to stop killing the whales!