OW certs at altitude. Which Acency?

[Lead_carrier]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
If instructors and DM can take folks into wrecks and caves without the right training or equipment what's a little altitude dive more or less?

I didn't even see that one coming.
I am not totally familiar with all training agencies or what type of standards they use Mike, but I do know that I am FORBIDDEN to take OW students in wrecks and/or caves or any overhead enviroment. :bonk:

 

[Walter]

"If instructors and DM can take folks into wrecks and caves without the right training or equipment what's a little altitude dive more or less?"

"I am FORBIDDEN to take OW students in wrecks and/or caves or any overhead enviroment."

emphasis added

 

[joens]

isnt a predive briefing standard procedure for all agencies?
that would include at the bare minimum the altitude corrected depth of the dive site . Calculating for altitude was covered in my OW class with SSI but It may have been added by the instructor.
Joens

 

[Walter]

Joens,

There are several places in the standards when a resonable person would say, "This applies to altitude diving." and then teach the concept and make sure the students could actually apply what they learned. The problem is, standards do not specifically require altitude theory to be taught. I even found an altitude section in special references of the Y manual that says more detail should be given in the Advanced course. That tells me it was written for OW students, but I haven't found where it is specifically mandated.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

joens,

As Walter pointed out, standards ensure that there is no "wiggle room". That is why they are so very specific. In effect, this keeps everyone on the same page, so to speak.

For instance, I mentioned earlier that PADI makes special mention of drysuit usage during certification. Why does PADI do this? ...because of the inherent difficulties and dangers associated with the use of such exposure protection, of course. In this matter, PADI does not simply leave it as an unwritten expectation that the instructor will cover this information in a pre-dive brief. Why then do they not specifically require certain additional standards when teaching at altitude?


SA

 

[GreenDiverDown]

I can hear the pre-dive brief now…

Look you guys…you should know that there is A LOT of stuff to know about diving at this altitude. We have a specialty class that I strongly encourage you to take before you dive any of the lakes around here. For now let’s just assume that we're at sea level.

We’ll be limiting our dives to 30 feet today and 40 feet tomorrow, so trust me, you’ll be plenty within the limits. Normally, at this altitude you would use a special table to convert your actual depths to theoretical depths for figuring your pressure groups with the wheel. But we’re just gonna use our actual depths today. I mean the wheel is complicated enough, right? O.K. Let’s go diving…

 

[joens]

Stephen Ash once bubbled...
I can hear the pre-dive brief now…



trust me,

those 2 words are an accident waiting to happen regardless of the situation.
Joens

 

[Lead_carrier]

I was on a dive once that during the predive briefing it was brought to the attention of the instructor that we were diving at altitude and wanted to know if we needed to adjust for altitude. His response sort of took me by surprise when he told us no. Since the lake level was so low, about 30 feet because of a drought, by the time we walked down to the water we would no longer be at altitude. He was correct.. We were at 1020 feet and when we got in the water we were at only 990 ft. A real fine line here don't you think.

and if you think I made this one up you're wrong.. I was there or I wouldn't have believed it.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

He must have been a fisherman, too.

SA

 

[Walter]

I don't have any clout, the Y is very responsive to all members. I already received an answer from the chairman of the YMCA SCUBA National Advisory Committee. He will be bringing this up at the next standards revision meeting. Unfortunately, that will be about a year from now. Fortunately, that year will give me time to really look at the standards and express any other concerns.