Ow in bp/w

[rhwestfall]

Although I do support being able to use your own gear, I personally wouldn't use my gear in the pool sessions. My reason is the destructive nature of the chlorine soup most "public" pools are maintained at...

 

[kenny kustom]

fftopic: Totally off topic question:

Kenny Kustom, why did you buy your kit before your OW course? Especially such an expensive set-up. Have you tried diving before, what if you don't like it?
:focus:

I like nice things.... lol

It was more of a sizing issue. I am a larger guy, and the harness looked to be a better fit. Feels good when I have it on.

---------- Post added May 13th, 2013 at 12:38 PM ----------

Called another shop.. More than happy to allow me to train in my own gear...
Now to try and get a refund from shop #1. The course doesn't start for another 6 weeks, so I would think there shouldn't be an issue.. But you never know !

---------- Post added May 13th, 2013 at 12:59 PM ----------

All good. Credit from ssi guy, signed up w padi shop.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The reply from the lds.


All equipment used during training has to be from our training department. It's an insurance issue. As soon as you have your full open water certification, you are free to dive with whatever equipment you choose. But during the pool sessions, it has to be our equipment. That way, everyone learns with the same equipment.

What a crock of crap! Lies, lies, lies. Insurance issue my rear end. Insurance company doesn't care what gear you are in. As long as it's safe and serviceable. It means they are greedy, ignorant of the gear, don't sell it, or a combination of all of them. I'd rather they just be honest and say they don't want you influencing other students to buy gear they don't sell. Instead they used a tired old lie to hide behind. If I were you I'd get my money back and then direct them to this thread. They have to be incredibly dense to think they can keep getting away with lying like that in this age of the net.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


And in other words "we don't want to train you in the gear you will be using and allow you to get familiar with it under the guidance of an instructor". Brilliant strategy there. They would rather have you go into your first dives after certification totally unfamiliar with the gear you will be using. Not only is it very selfish of them it's kinda dangerous IMO. They are making you use their gear that you will never dive in again and that for a new diver is unlike what you plan on diving. For an experienced diver a BC is a BC. Or should be. It appears that they don't think a BPW is a BC. But for a new diver there could be a bit of a learning curve that could cause problems under the right conditions.

I welcome students to use any gear they choose from any brand. I prefer they don't have AIR II's but if they do I'll train them in that configuration. Hell if they show up with Uncle Bob's horse collar and double hose I'll let them use it if it's in safe working order. As long as they let me try it for a half hour or so first. That way I can explain it to the rest of the class. If an instructor can't handle open water students in open water gear just because it's a little different should they really be teaching?

I do understand though that some SSI shops try to make people buy into the "total diving system" idea whereby they sell them a complete set of gear that the shop thinks they should have. You could be running into that. They just won't admit it openly.

 

[Hawkwood]

There is one SSI shop shown for Manitoba. Is there a reason you are set on them? As others have stated, you might as well look for another shop that is more "open".

If you are dead set on using the BP/W, then by all means find another place to learn. If you are dead set on using that particular shop, well.....it's their rules, regardless of what we all think about it.

 

[Sharkbait2005]

Jim, the "Total Dive System" isn't there to get them to buy everything. It's to encourage the students that in order to be better divers, you need to get out and dive. And the best way to do that is to start with owning your gear. With your own gear, you will be more comfortable with how it works. Back to being a better diver.
I consult my students constantly on what to buy, what not to buy, and what would be in their best interest. And, if we don't have gear that will fit them properly, and if we can't get a proper fitting setup for them, then they should talk with another shop that sells a different brand.

 

[danvolker]

Jim, the "Total Dive System" isn't there to get them to buy everything. It's to encourage the students that in order to be better divers, you need to get out and dive. And the best way to do that is to start with owning your gear. With your own gear, you will be more comfortable with how it works. Back to being a better diver.
I consult my students constantly on what to buy, what not to buy, and what would be in their best interest. And, if we don't have gear that will fit them properly, and if we can't get a proper fitting setup for them, then they should talk with another shop that sells a different brand.

Joe,
Many of us make snap judgements about issues such as this one, because of the abuses we have seen so many times.
One thing you will see when you get in front of a population of over 200,000 divers, is that after they have been diving quite a long time, and have been able to try other gear alternative, a large chunk tries Bp/wing, and is shocked at how superior this is to the traditional jacket style BC.
The fit should feel like the system was made as a one/off, just for them...and while swimming underwater with it, they find it far easier to remain flat level/horizontal and balanced while diving....and, most feel the bp/wing feels like it is part of your body, rather than some big thing attached to you that "slops around" every time you move.....Not all divers will try bp/wings, and not all will react this way--but a very large chunk has.

Since some of your divers ( or those of the LDS in this thread) are going to get exposed to the thoughts and ramblings of hundreds of thousands of divers in an online community like Scubaboard, or even on Facebook ( with over 2.5 million divers) , you might consider that your clientele will be demanding the bp/wing from day one, and will not like a dive shop that asks them to buy a "training BC", and to then later on feel it is sub-standard, and that it will force them to spend the money on a 2nd BC system, the bp/wing they could have had initially.

In places like Palm Beach, we are creating Gear Demo Days at the BHB Marine Park, where all styles of BC's and bp/wings can be tried on real dives, many varieties of fins, computers and even wetsuits will be there for demo. Our shops that participate, will even work a coop deal with shops from out of town, so that if a client suddenly has to have something, the out of town shop can gain most of the revenue from the sale. The concept is, get the diver to try enough different gear, to find out what really IS best for them..not just best for some particular dive shop to sell.

I can't wait for divers to demo "split fins" against Force Fins, and Hollis F1's and freedive fins...versus all the normal brands.....We have a cool place where a current goes right by a concrete dock-like structure, easy for the diver's friends to see how they do with each different fin type--and for them to immediately see what get's them moving well, and what does not!!!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Jim, the "Total Dive System" isn't there to get them to buy everything. It's to encourage the students that in order to be better divers, you need to get out and dive. And the best way to do that is to start with owning your gear. With your own gear, you will be more comfortable with how it works. Back to being a better diver.
I consult my students constantly on what to buy, what not to buy, and what would be in their best interest. And, if we don't have gear that will fit them properly, and if we can't get a proper fitting setup for them, then they should talk with another shop that sells a different brand.

I have no problem with a shop that operates in the manner yours does. But I have seen ridiculous set ups that are clearly nothing more than something to separate people from their money without regard to their needs and interests. One shop advertised four different systems. A fresh water, a salt water, a travel, and a cold water. One brand, no other choices, and the class was priced by what gear package was chosen.

 

[TSandM]

Our LDS is also very funny about what gear is allowed in classes, and it's a liability fear. The shop owner knows what the service schedule has been on the gear he owns, and he worries about people using other gear. (So, for that reason, we are not allowed to bring any of our own gear to lend to students, even as spares "in case".) It's not the insurance company that's paranoid, it's the shop owner.

This shop has drawn a line in the sand, and the OP has two choices -- another shop, or get his certification in their gear and switch to his own afterwards.

 

[danvolker]

Our LDS is also very funny about what gear is allowed in classes, and it's a liability fear. The shop owner knows what the service schedule has been on the gear he owns, and he worries about people using other gear. (So, for that reason, we are not allowed to bring any of our own gear to lend to students, even as spares "in case".) It's not the insurance company that's paranoid, it's the shop owner.

This shop has drawn a line in the sand, and the OP has two choices -- another shop, or get his certification in their gear and switch to his own afterwards.

Which might allow him to charge students for a gear check....if the shop is not competent to certify gear as functionally working, they would not have my business
But hey, nice Olive Branch

 

[lowviz]

...//... But I have seen ridiculous set ups that are clearly nothing more than something to separate people from their money without regard to their needs and interests. ...//...

Why does that offend you so much, Jim? Expect it, filter for it, get over it. Walk. No harm, no foul.

...//... if the shop is not competent to certify gear as functionally working, they would not have my business ...//...

IOW: "Duh".

Jeez, Dan we seem to be agreeing with each other much too often...