PADI Certification too quick?

[dweeb]

I have no issue with your opinion ... your delivery leaves much to be desired.

Fine, then you could separate the two. If you have an issue with my delivery, you could articulate it, and we could discuss the reasons, and maybe I might change it.
Certainly, that would be better than dismissing the message over the delivery.

And much of what you say is simply unsupportable.

Now you are addressing things directly, rather than merely calling for dismissal of viewa, that is something I'd like to discuss. Could you be more specific?

I have no interest in trading barbs with you.

Nor I with you. I offered my views, you offered yours, and they may be the basis for a rewarding discussion. I merely took issue with your advising someone to dismiss entire points of view without understanding them. I find this is all too often the approach of from your side of the thread's central issue. People too often respond emotionally to colorful rhetoric like Boogie's without considering the merits of the ideas. There is this overwhelming trend in such discussions for the advocates of quick and easy certification or personal preference as the guiding principle in gear configuration to say "We're nicer, so we're right." I'm tired of that fallacy being paraded around.

I think I was very fair to your point of view, in suggesting that luvspoodles look at both sides of the issues. Then you come in telling her to ignore one side - yeah, I had a problem with that. As the exchange progressed, I saw our messages converging. I don't think that's an accident. I think you do believe in an open minded approach, as much as I do, but you reacted emotionally at first. That's OK, I don't care, but you don't have to maintain that approach.

But you, of all people, should not be bringing up the topic of put-down ... that seems to be about all you add to this board.

You're mistaken. I'm very careful to avoid ACTUAL personal attacks, but people's perception of what is an attack is somewhat distorted. I've said nothing negative about you, and I've agreed with at least half of what you said. Why don't you try really reading where I've responded to your points, not your person, and giving a substantive response, rather than simply trying to label and insult me.

You are, and will remain, a complete waste of my time.

That's your personal problem. From where I sit, you've done nothing to demonstrate that you tolerate a differing opinion. I keep hoping you will, because it appears there may be much to learn from you, if you are willing to talk to anyone other than a syncophant.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I merely took issue with your advising someone to dismiss entire points of view without understanding them.

I didn't advise someone to dismiss your point of view ... I advised them to ignore you. Not because of your point of view, but because of your behavior. You do recognize the difference, I hope.,

I find this is all too often the approach of from your side of the thread's central issue. People too often respond emotionally to colorful rhetoric like Boogie's without considering the merits of the ideas. There is this overwhelming trend in such discussions for the advocates of quick and easy certification or personal preference as the guiding principle in gear configuration to say "We're nicer, so we're right." I'm tired of that fallacy being paraded around.

And there, my friend, is where you argument crash-landed ... as I am not, and never will be, an advocate of quick and easy certification.

FWIW - Boogie is someone I have a lot of respect for ... I hope to be diving with him in the near future. On the other hand, colorful rhetoric is often counterproductive. But there's a difference between colorful rhetoric and practicing rudeness while hiding behind the anonymity of a keyboard.

You haven't a clue what "my side" of the argument is ... you continue to demonstrate that by making fallacious assumptions, while either missing my point or deliberately misrepresenting it.

And your arguments continue to be unsupported. I asked you a question some time back ... and it was repeated at least twice by someone else in the thread. You never answered it ... until you do, or attempt to, you have no credibility on the issue of weighting, just a lot of rhetoric and assumptions that may or may not have merit. But the "central issue" as you call it, is that you don't have enough information to make an informed judgment one way or the other. Neither do I or anyone else, based on the information that was provided earlier in this thread. You missed that point altogether in your haste to portray yourself as somehow ... informed.

if you are willing to talk to anyone other than a syncophant.

Uh huh ... tell me again how careful you are to avoid personal attack.

Keep digging Dweeb ... it's your grave ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[northwind]

No one should need that much lead..

O.K. For Sure, I am on the less weight is better bandwagon, But If I take my 7mil farmer john (XXL), hood, gloves and booties, place them in the bottom of my swimming pool and put 20 pounds of lead on top of it...it still floats. (And that's in freshwater)

No amount of conditioning, experience or any other voodoo is going to change that fact.

 

[tsteinme]

Steven,

Hovering is a required skill in PADI's Confined Water 4 and Open Water 4. The National Geographic Diver (which is basically PADI's OW course plus two additional dives) has even more hovering requirements.

Tori

 

[Web Monkey]

deleted - didn't realize it was an old thread.

 

[dilligaf368]

US Navy Scuba school was 6 weeks 8 hrs a day. 2nd class diving school (air diving using MK-5 and other Air hats) 12 weeks, 1st class diving school (mixed Gas) 12 weeks. PADI in a few days! Go figure! Bill

 

[Web Monkey]

US Navy Scuba school was 6 weeks 8 hrs a day. 2nd class diving school (air diving using MK-5 and other Air hats) 12 weeks, 1st class diving school (mixed Gas) 12 weeks. PADI in a few days! Go figure! Bill

I'll bet the Navy divers didn't come back to the boat bleeding from their eye and nose like one of the 3-day wonders I ran into on vacation last month.

Terry

 

[diveninja]

Isn't it a little much to expect perfection from any entry level course? Isn't experience the best instructor you could ever ask for? There is always a learning curve whenever you undertake some new activity. There are those that take it slow and work into the skills, and those the rush and make gross mistakes; you see it with automobiles and motorcycles all the time. I think we should hold individuals responsible for their actions, not the course they took. It provides the essentials, and it's their responsiblity to proceed at a safe pace and practice. If that's a problem, offer a better solution, rather than just complaining about it.

 

[Web Monkey]

Diving is one of the few activites marketed to the general public where it's entirely possible for the participant to get killed or severly injured if they don't understand and practice key parts of the training.

Given the number of injuries for "3-day-wonders", it's clear that a lot of the people taking the classes have no idea what the risks are or what the probability is that they'll get hurt because they haven't had enough training or practice.

Experience is a great teacher if you understand the lesson. Most of the people who get hurt don't even know what they did wrong.

If you want to see the results of the 3 day class sometime, take a cruise and go on one of the dives from the ship.

Terry

Isn't it a little much to expect perfection from any entry level course? Isn't experience the best instructor you could ever ask for? There is always a learning curve whenever you undertake some new activity. There are those that take it slow and work into the skills, and those the rush and make gross mistakes; you see it with automobiles and motorcycles all the time. I think we should hold individuals responsible for their actions, not the course they took. It provides the essentials, and it's their responsiblity to proceed at a safe pace and practice. If that's a problem, offer a better solution, rather than just complaining about it.

 

[The Goat Show]

That does seem fast. I was PADI certified this past summer. We had 5 class sessions which consisted of 2.5 hrs of classroom instruction/tests then 2 hrs in the pool. After that we had the 4 test dives - 2 Saturday and 2 Sunday.