PADI Divemaster without Advanced?

[MiloR]

Advanced isn't advanced! It should be called "Additional Open Water"

To become a DiveMaster one would expect considerable experience in all sorts of conditions and a demonstrable "mastery" of scuba diving. You can't gain that in 50 dives. It's often said that just because the card says DiveMaster it's no guarantee of excellence.

Your progression should be to go diving and build up enough experience -- with a drysuit -- to do the Rescue Diver course. IMHO Rescue is the best of the PADI recreational diving courses. It's a tough course especially if done in the UK sea.

Why are people, that mostly live near cold water diving, so adamant about experience in all the different conditions, including wearing a Drysuit, gloves, hood, etc for every DM or Instructor?? Is it jealousy that they can't dive year-round in warm waters?

If I lived, and DM'd or Instructed, in Puerto Rico or Bonaire or Grenada why would I have to be an expert, or even have experience, in these things? My diving does not involve them. Why is it relevant or required, in some people's minds, that any DM or Instructor should be able to be picked up by helicopter and then dropped ANYWHERE in the world and be an expert in that region....and if they aren't then they are just the standard Agency hack out to only make money?

Reminding all the relentless PADI critics that "advanced" in AOW means advanced beyond OW....that's all. Quibble the semantics all you want, but that is how the course is designed and marketed. Suck it up.

From the PADI website: Advanced Open Water Diver | PADI

"About the Course​

The Advanced Open Water Diver course is all about advancing your skills. You'll practice navigation and buoyancy, try deep diving and make three specialty dives of your choosing (it's like a specialty sampler platter). For every specialty dive you complete, you can earn credit toward PADI® specialty certifications."

"How to Become an Advanced Open Water Diver
Learn about underwater navigation, deep diving and three types of specialty diving that interest you. After some skill practice with your instructor, you'll make five open water dives. There's no exam because this course is truly about having fun and gaining experience."

Very clear language that states the purpose of the Class. The words that are bold and italics are my emphases. I will never understand the complete Hate by people. Do you hate PADI or do you hate that you have to actually look things up yourself, and actually read, instead of just trusting other haters?

Unpopular opinion, advanced is a worthless certification and it’s way for agencies to milk more money out of divers

See the above "How to Become an Advanced Open Water Diver", from the PADI website, to understand how this is not a waste of money. It allows you to TRY Drysuit, TRY Photography, TRY Search & Recovery, and TRY Wreck.
You might find that Drysuit diving is horrible for you. That Wreck stuff makes you uncomfortable. Great way to learn that without taking a Full course in that Specialty. It is like getting the Sampler Platter appetizer at the restaurant...a little bit of many things. How is that bad or a waste??

Fwiw, I hold active Instructor Credentials with both PADI & SDI

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Why are people, that mostly live near cold water diving, so adamant about experience in all the different conditions, including wearing a Drysuit, gloves, hood, etc for every DM or Instructor?? Is it jealousy that they can't dive year-round in warm waters?

If a dive pro never goes to teach in cold water conditions, it is completely irrelevant. While sure such experience is beneficial, I'd argue focusing/fine tuning teaching methods, buoyancy, trim, various skills, propulsion, is time much better spent.

 

[MiloR]

If a dive pro never goes to teach in cold water conditions, it is completely irrelevant. While sure such experience is beneficial, I'd argue focusing/fine tuning teaching methods, buoyancy, trim, various skills, propulsion, is time much better spent.

Exactly. So many people do not hold this opinion though. If I only teach in a Northern Quarry I don't have to be a Fish expert or proficient in Drift diving. Hell, I don't even need Drysuit if I personally have zero intentions of doing any class related work when the water temps require a Drysuit or if I have Zero intentions of teaching Drysuit.

 

[azstinger11]

Unpopular opinion, advanced is a worthless certification and it’s way for agencies to milk more money out of divers

For most agencies I agree. Here in Southern California we have the Advanced Diver Program through Los Angeles County. It’s actually useful lol.

 

[Edward3c]

Hi,

A strange question, and it doesn’t apply to me or anyone I know, promise!

It seems that for Divemaster, you need to be Rescue certified. Makes sense.

For Rescue, you’d imagine that you need to be Advanced certified. But you actually only need “Adventure Diver” plus a Nav dive.

Advanced is pretty much the same as Adventure, but with a little theory, a Nav dive and a Deep dive.

Does this mean you can be Divemaster certified, without ever having done your Advanced or potentially ever having exceeded 18m?

To clarify again, this does not apply to me, I have done my Advanced already and I’m thinking of going for Rescue and Divemaster. I’m just wondering if this is a real loophole, and if there’s some interesting reason why it might be intentional.

(Maybe to allow Divemaster certs in areas where dive sites don’t exceed 18m..?)

I tried searching but I couldn’t hit on the right key words.

Thanks

Chris

This is an Advanced Diver course, nothing like most out there.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

This is an Advanced Diver course, nothing like most out there.

BSAC is a different beast. They have possibly one of the most solid curriculums. Unfortunately, not readily available to most people.

 

[Wibble]

What was that recent thread: "Things that kick up a crap storm"?

1) Advanced != advanced knowledge
The problem here is that people who know nothing, i.e. the students of said "Additional Open Water" course don't know enough to know they don't know enough.

Literally being told that the OW & AOW qualifications mean you can dive anywhere. Then smashing into the reality of cold water diving in tidal, dark, deep, low vis conditions. One hell of a shock, not least to the ego.


2) DiveMasters often have narrow experience.
Despite having the "master" moniker, that doesn't really equate to knowing the in-depth theory and practice of diving. Some DiveMasters do have a great breadth and depth of skills; others less so. Especially if technical topics come up. Or watching mediocre diving skills.

 

[boulderjohn]

Literally being told that the OW & AOW qualifications mean you can dive anywhere. Then smashing into the reality of cold water diving in tidal, dark, deep, low vis conditions. One hell of a shock, not least to the ego.

Where did you get this absurdity? Divrs are told throughout all courses to dive within the limits of their experience and training. They are constantly advised to use good judgment when extending those limits. Heck, there is an entire section of the PADI trimix course about the importance of using good judgment in extending their limits beyond the scope of that course.

 

[scubadada]

Not as bad as "Master Scuba Diver"!

Master Scuba Diver is not a course, it is recognition. The value of MSD has been debated ad nauseum on SB. I could not find the current cost on the PADI website, last I knew, it was $50 for verification of the prerequisites and the card. A MSD would have more training/experience than the minimum requirement for DM. You would have OW, AOW, Rescue, 5 specialties, and 50 dives. DM prerequisites are OW, Adventure Diver with Navigation or AOW, Rescue, and 40 dives

 

[NorCalDM]

Exactly. So many people do not hold this opinion though. If I only teach in a Northern Quarry I don't have to be a Fish expert or proficient in Drift diving. Hell, I don't even need Drysuit if I personally have zero intentions of doing any class related work when the water temps require a Drysuit or if I have Zero intentions of teaching Drysuit.

I mostly agree and is why when somebody asks where should I do my DM or Instructor my answer is do it where you plan to work. I do believe an Instructor or DM with experience in various environments helps the student mentally prepare for the diving they maybe planning to do. Skills are skills so trim, buoyancy, mask clearing etc. are the same no matter what. The majority of the divers you are certifying in that quarry are probably not going to continue to dive there and are prepping for a vacation in a warm location to go see pretty fish and may do it once or twice a year. I have been a working DM in California for over 15 years now and I always ask the students why are they getting certified the answer is usually they are going on a trip and they don't plan on diving cold water other than to get certified. The experience helps because you can answer oh that's great the water temp is usually X so plan on a Xmm wetsuit and you will use less weight or there's lots of current there so use some fins like this for some power or so on. Probably 10-15 of the over 1000 students I've worked with over the years continue to dive in our coldish California waters. Just my opinion.