PADI Does Revoke Certifications

[Griffo]

What I don't get about the scuba community is the lack of respect for differing ideas. If its not done my way, it's wrong... Wait, there's an entire forum devoted to that idea.

Because people have spent the last 40 years dying by trying things out, and as a community people have learnt from those deaths? Most ideas have been thought of and tried, and many of them rejected because they simply don't work, or introduct additional complications. People get very agitated because, well, they don't like to see people die by repeating the mistakes of others.

 

[nimoh]

You might want to read this:

Precision Diving

BTW, if I lived that close to cave country, I wouldn't be taking PPB, Deep, Dry from a PADI instructor. I'd be heading down to Florida and taking a DIR-F class and a dry suit class. Also I'll be in Atlanta for a couple weeks. Mind getting together to show me some of your favorite local dive sites?

I took the PADI dry suit course and was instructed specifically to not use the dry suit for buoyancy, putting in just enough air to alleviate squeeze (and using the BC for buoyancy).

I was also instructed (classroom and practical) in two methods to get out of a feet first position.

so not really sure what this article is based on. Perhaps all PADI dry suit classes are not the same?

 

[MarkHerm]

What I don't get about the scuba community is the lack of respect for differing ideas. If its not done my way, it's wrong... Wait, there's an entire forum devoted to that idea.

A <50 dives diver, who is going to apply for PADI's Master Scuba Diver rating very soon, is now judging on a dive system and the attitute of its divers that is proven to work for the most challenging dives and that has an extremely good record with respect to accidents and incidents?! Awesome

 

[fire_diver]

One of the things the author mentions is "overweighted divers" and the issues this causes. As an instructor, why would he teach overweighting?

Instructors don't "teach" overweighting, they just do it. It's easier to have a student put more air in a BC to stay off the bottom, than to chase them up to the surface repeatedly. It's easier to teach a student sitting firmly on the bottom than struggling to hold a position in the water.

It's not a bad concept on teaching, but the students are done a disservice when the instructor doesn't have them do correct weight checks on the last dive. Then the students go on into diving using the same amount of lead they trained with, often grossly overweighted.

 

[Max Speed]

Will someone please provide a phone number for the subject instructor. I would like to get a cave cert before the price goes up.

Sent from my SPH-P100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[chrpai]

Instructors don't "teach" overweighting, they just do it. It's easier to have a student put more air in a BC to stay off the bottom, than to chase them up to the surface repeatedly. It's easier to teach a student sitting firmly on the bottom than struggling to hold a position in the water.

It's not a bad concept on teaching, but the students are done a disservice when the instructor doesn't have them do correct weight checks on the last dive. Then the students go on into diving using the same amount of lead they trained with, often grossly overweighted.

It is 'taught' it in terms of they say one thing but then do another. Then the diver goes on to take AOW, PPB and dozens of dives to unlearn/relearn what they should already know.

Go do a you tube video search for "PADI mask replacement". The first page is full of overweighted divers in a verticle trim profile with their fins and knees firmly planted on the pool bottom.

Now go do a you tube video search for "GUE Basic 5" and you'll see divers who are maintaining buoyancy and trim while performing their skills. In other words, they don't 'park' their dive they just keep diving while handling problems.

Now obviously an open water student isn't going to master these skills right away but shouldn't they atleast be taught from dive 1 on what it should really look like?

---------- Post Merged at 07:41 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:34 AM ----------

Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYvfl-Ylvf0

The "role model" demonstrates the mask replacement skill. On her knees showing the class to deflact their BCD and let "ALL" of the air out. At a minute in she's demonstrating to breath in and out in a calm manner but it doesn't show the effects on buoyancy because she's completely negative.

I'm not impressed at all but I bet at 50 dives I still thought these guys were awesome.

 

[cerich]

Instructors don't "teach" overweighting, they just do it. It's easier to have a student put more air in a BC to stay off the bottom, than to chase them up to the surface repeatedly. It's easier to teach a student sitting firmly on the bottom than struggling to hold a position in the water.

It's not a bad concept on teaching, but the students are done a disservice when the instructor doesn't have them do correct weight checks on the last dive. Then the students go on into diving using the same amount of lead they trained with, often grossly overweighted.

When a instructor overweights a student, you ARE teaching them to dive overweighted, they learn to expect the buoyancy that being overweighted gives them and because it was the desired state their instructor put them in believes it to be correct, when it is in fact not. Overweighting really only became a problem when we stopped having students develop good in water skills PRIOR to allowing them on scuba. When they had those instructors didn't have to chase them all over the pool, when we skipped those overweighting was the solution to a instructor caused problem.

 

[Bob DBF]

I'm glad to hear the OP's message. PADI should revoke certifications if the person doesn't have the skills- they should also pull an instructors card if they can't get right. C-Cards are more valuable when the testing is thorough.

PADI is doing damage control. With their records purged and the cards destroyed they have no liability from their instructor giving inadaquite training. As a plus they keep the fees and the instructor who will send them more business.

As a SCUBA agency, PADI should be insuring that their instructors are not giving certifications to anyone that does not have the skills required by revoking the instructors card, but...



Bob
-------------------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

 

[Hawkwood]

...
As a SCUBA agency, PADI should be insuring that their instructors are not giving certifications to anyone that does not have the skills required by revoking the instructors card, but...
...

Is that not why they are investigating? The deep card was after all issued fraudulently.

Anyone can go to PADI's website and review the list of Instructors, and operators who have been censured, undergone "retraining", or have had their instructor's card "revoked". It's all there.

 

[nimoh]

I'm not sure how PADI would be liable, it was the instructor that committed the fraud.

now if they don't investigate the complaint, and the instructor certifies other students, there may be some liability.

I think the destroying of the cards is a result of current knowledge of PADI. When the instructor first submitted the paperwork, PADI had no reason to believe that the requirements were not met and issued the card. Then when the student informed PADI that the requirements were not met, they really have no choice buy to revoke the cards based on current knowledge. Whether they get the cards back or not, PADI is making a reasonable effort to 'fix' the situation.

However, I think it would be good PR for PADI to compensate the student for incurred expenses. With compensation, PADI is saying "we apologize, and wish to make things right". Without compensation, they are saying "you should be more careful when selecting a PADI instructor, some are not trustworthy"