PADI - Expectations

[ZenDiver.3D]

You did not get what you paid for. You need to talk to your instructor and see if he can fix the problems- there may be a communication breakdown with the instructor - give him a chance to fix it. Make sure you get more time in the pool before open water- talk to the instructor and the shop owner if needed. Many instructors spend to little time just checking the boxes not teaching. An advanced class that is just more of the same will not fix your problem. Make sure you interview your instructor before any more classes and ensure you agree on what you are looking to accomplish and what you expect from the instructor before you pay.

I agree with all of that. Most people fall for the marketing and don't really understand what they should look for. More at the bottom.

Bouyancy control in a shallow pool is difficult for most. The deeper you go the easier it becomes.

Im my OW course we didnt do much bouyancy in the pool. Most was done in open water dives in 8-10m.

I still remember doing fin pivots in my first 10 or so dives after my course. These skills can be practiced at any time not just during your training. Even now if I had bouyancy problems I would hit the bottom and do some fin pivots just to help me sort out the problem.

As long as you know the proceedure, you can practice outside of training.

I disagree. Buoyancy in a shallow pool os never difficult if you are weighted properly(which most aren't- they make them rocks), and are given time and instruction. None of our students Ever touch bottom after the first 10 minutes of the first pool session. We teach a hover. And then they Practice it. Many do this. A great deal don't take the time or make the effort. And it Is effort on the instructor's part. I am sad to say that a good many of us are pushed for time/money/place your own label here......
OP and all else- you should have cleared your mask at least 20 -25 times in your first class. Mine do that number easily(at least 5 above water, and then 25 or so below while at a hover or swimming). Each class session you should clear it over and over too. The same should be done for each other skill. That is the only true way to refine a skill-practice. I am sorry for all of you guys who got less than proper instruction. Definitely read Walter and Jim's posts. They are outstanding when helping you look beyond the hype.

Oh, and extra time and work should be given, in my opinion, not extra charged.....

 

[flots am]

Am I expecting too much from this class? Is this by design so I'll sign up for the Advanced Open Water? Either way, I know I'll be taking the class with another shop.

Your class will probably get you to the point where you won't die, but if you're just doing a skill once so the instructor can check the box, you're being screwed out of the training you're supposed to be getting.

At a minimum, you're supposed to be able to perform all the skills you're being taught (mask clear, regulator clear, retrieval, switching, ascents, descents, entries and a number of others) repeatably and with a minimal amount of anxiety. If this isn't the case, you need more pool time and practice. However it's in the financial interest of the instructor to push you out the door as fast as possible, since that makes room for another "student".

If you don't feel comfortable with the skills and in the water, tell your instructor that you want more pool time. If he gives you a hard time, tell him you want a refund, and go somewhere else. If he gives you a hard time about the refund tell him you've documented the training and ask him how expensive he thinks it will be when you go out on a dive and get hurt.

If you don't speak up, he'll take you out on your open water dives, sign your card and send you on your way, and you won't actually be qualified, but there will be nothing you can do about it except spend more money for an "advanced" class that will do nothing more than teach you what you should have been taught in your OW class.

flots.

 

[Ghanguss]

I disagree. Buoyancy in a shallow pool os never difficult if you are weighted properly(which most aren't- they make them rocks), and are given time and instruction. None of our students Ever touch bottom after the first 10 minutes of the first pool session. We teach a hover. And then they Practice it. Many do this. A great deal don't take the time or make the effort. And it Is effort on the instructor's part.

Its good that some instructors make an extra effort to give students greater skills. My training was different to this and I had to work on my skills outside of the classroom to get to a level of skill I was personally comfortable with. I think thats a normal process in learing any new skill and its how I prefer to learn.

From the PADI requirements: Buoyancy control (hovering for at least 30 seconds) — In water too deep to stand up in, demonstrate and have student divers practice hovering using only buoyancy control (no arm or fin use).

For the OP, this is the minimum requirements that you must satisfy in OW training in the confined water pool dive.

The requirement for open water dives is: Neutral buoyancy and hovering.....This exercise has no time limit because you’re looking for mastery. Some divers can immediately establish a controlled hover; others may need to warm up a bit before they establish a controlled hover.

 

[bracko]

wow... some people are well on their high horses...

it sounds like you did your skills okay, I assume you did fin pivots as well (lie on the bottom of the pool and breath in, torso goes up breath out, torso goes down). and you did some hovers... all sounds okay.... so what is the instructor supposed to do, find out by osmosis?

call up the store and ask for more pool time, I'm sure they'll be happy to have you over one afternoon/weekend morning.

 

[Cave Diver]

I do believe the instructor was competent. But I do feel that I didn't get all that I was expecting or paid for. In a couple weeks I'll do the open water dives and expect that we'll be performing a lot of the same skills, just in the open water.

I guess I just expected more from the course, especially in the areas of feeling comfortable.

Am I expecting too much from this class? Is this by design so I'll sign up for the Advanced Open Water? Either way, I know I'll be taking the class with another shop.

Talk to the instructor and tell him your feelings and concerns. His reaction and how he chooses to handle it will give you more insight into the issue.

 

[Dive-aholic]

This is the problem with most shop courses. This isn't completely your instructor's fault. In fact, the only fault I find in him is teaching for a shop that puts constraints on him. Most shops don't allow enough time for adequate practice of the skills. I never have more than 4 students in an OW course and rarely more than 2 and still do more confined water time that you did in your course. But I don't work for a shop. I'm an independent and I can spend as much time as I want in the course. Talk to the instructor, but don't expect him to be able to do much. He answers to someone else, and typically they only answer to the dollar.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'll agree with those who say talk to your instructor. Before we go making any assumptions about the quality of your training, let's establish that you may have looked fine to your instructor. He can judge your competency by how you look ... but not by how you feel ... unless you tell him.

One of the most important skills you must develop as a diver is communication. Start with your instructor. Talk to him about what you just told the rest of us. That sort of feedback is invaluable in any class you take, and will learn how good your instructor really is by his reaction to that discussion. A good instructor won't take you to do your open water checkout dives until both you and he are comfortable with your ability to do the skills successfully.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[onenonlychance]

my wife and i are almost done with our cert class also. just one more confined dive and the open water stuff.my wife also feels somewhat like you do and thought that there should be more personal attention,and i agree however i think of it like when i first got my drivers license,i got practice by driving more and the experiance = comfort.however i do think that the instuctor shouldn't skip over information after all you did pay for a product.you also get to fill out a comment card at the end of class from what i understand.so make your concerns known.

 

[AndyNZ]

You didn't get what you paid for in my opinion.

You did not get what you paid for.

I find these comments quite interesting, given that the OP hasn't indicated what he paid....

... what was described sounds like a fairly typical entry level diver course run by shops who pack 'em in to keep the price low.

In which case, I would argue that the OP actually did get exactly what he paid for.

The crime here is that if you paid more than a cheap price, that's when you've been shortchanged.



I suspect that the instructor was probably competent enough to teach a reasonably good course, but was under pressure due to constraints placed upon them by the facility through which the course was taught.

It certainly has nothing to do with PADI.

Perhaps "facility expectations" would be a better title for the thread? This seems to me to be about how a shop chooses to implement agency standards in order to meet their commercial pressures. In this case, it's a box ticking exercise.

 

[dburg30]

I agree that the OW is somewhat like driving. But I look at it more that the OW is like the learners permit, and AOW would be your license. Once you have your permit, you can go out on the road, with a licensed driver (more experienced buddy) and practice your skills

I have a question regarding PADI Open Water Diver course. I have just completed my confined dives and while I feel capable of going underwater and breathing, I'm not entirely sure I'm comfortable with being able to control my depth in the water with neutral buoyancy.

In fact, I found it interesting whenever we descended into the deep end, we always descended straight to the bottom. Never did we practice descending to a spot suspended above the bottom. The only real neutral buoyancy skills we did was a hover in place (sitting in water basically) and a swim, which was cramped and people were bouncing all over each other.IF that was the only skill you did, they skipped the fin pivot which they should not have. If you were able to hover, with no real issues, that means you have the concept. It will be up to you to make sure you continue to practice these skills, IMO.

I don't feel that I ever fully got comfortable in the water breathing. While I felt safe (it was only about 18ft deep), I know that I was sucking down air like nobody's business. I went through my tank while the others in the class were at half a tank.

Were you all using the same size tanks? Some people use air faster, and that is another thing you just have to work on. I would guess you looked comfortable to your instructor. If you had a look of panic/struggle on your face and they ignored it, well that's an issue then

The class seemed more about checking the boxes on the "dives" rather than seeking a comfort level and proficiency. I'm confident I can do the skills, but the class seemed very rushed. In fact, we were forced to complete our second day of confined water dives 3 hours earlier than scheduled. What did I miss in those three hours?

Well, you should have had a book that came with your class (or DVD rom) it would go over what to expect on each confined dive. If you did everything listed in those, minus any optional items, then you technically didnt 'miss' anything. However, if it was advertised as you had x hours of pool time, and you didnt get it, I would for sure make sure you either got to use that pool time or ask for some sort of discount

We saw each "skill" and then performed it once. I was shocked that the instructor would say, "well you cheated a bit on that skill, but you got it done," or "you did that a little fast, but that's ok." What happened to practice makes perfect?
Little hard to judge without knowing what skills they 'cheated' on or what the 'cheat was IMO

I do believe the instructor was competent. But I do feel that I didn't get all that I was expecting or paid for. In a couple weeks I'll do the open water dives and expect that we'll be performing a lot of the same skills, just in the open water.

I guess I just expected more from the course, especially in the areas of feeling comfortable.

Am I expecting too much from this class? Is this by design so I'll sign up for the Advanced Open Water? Either way, I know I'll be taking the class with another shop.
Well, since the OW class will be the first time you are basically introduced to scuba, it will be hard to say if you were expecting too much from the class, again IMO. If you would go take the OW class somewhere else, you would at least have something to base a comparison on. But I dont know how anyone here can honestly say if you got what you paid for.

I know there are instructors that probably run their classes like the military, skills and drills over, and over and over and over etc.. Is that a bad thing? No, not really, but IMO there can be too much focused on a basic, starter class.

I'm not saying you dont want people to be safe, but I am saying that an OW certification is just basic skill training, what you do with it from that point on is up to you.