PADI Holds The New World's Record for Fastest OW Class

[DandyDon]

That's very misleading, Don. Most of those do not belong to RSTC and even of those that do, there are big differences in standards.

Ok, my mistake, thanks. Good to have the experienced and knowledgeable watching my posts.

 

[robway034]

Well, I have to throw my two or three cents in as well! LOL..., I have to weigh in on the side of those who put the blame or onus on the individual DM or Instructor(s). I currently reside in the Washington DC metro and there are several shops in and around the area (which includes Md, VA & DC). With that said, I have seen DM/instructors I would not trust to teach a turtle how to dive. Then, agian, there are others that are extremely thorough and professional given the exact same amount of time and equipment.
I am not trying to make "time or length of instruction" the deciding factor, rather the competence of the instructor. One also has to wonder, what kind and how thorough, of a process some of these half @ss DM/instr's went through to become DM/instr's themselves?!? Further more, where is their conscious! The last time I looked the this one of the few sports where the primary gear is reffered to as "life support"!

 

[Goose75]

If the agencies made the Aow course meaningful, they wouldn't sell as many cards - which is their primary business. :doh:

I don't see the conflict. Change AOW to OW2 and add another step towards master or DM called "advanced" that focuses on dive proficiency. Done properly it should also increase the skills of DM candidates and thus future instructors. Then they get to sell MORE cards, improve the candidate pool and grab more interest from those who want more proficiency. Plus the instructors will be actually getting credit and some pennies for their work instead of throwing it in gratis.

 

[Prestonhf01]

i was cert. by padi 4 pool, n 4 ow dives.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

i was cert. by padi 4 pool, n 4 ow dives.

Most of us were.

Hey Seargent, say hi the boys in St Loius and Tignish!

 

[Storm]

I don't see the conflict. Change AOW to OW2 and add another step towards master or DM called "advanced" that focuses on dive proficiency. Done properly it should also increase the skills of DM candidates and thus future instructors. Then they get to sell MORE cards, improve the candidate pool and grab more interest from those who want more proficiency. Plus the instructors will be actually getting credit and some pennies for their work instead of throwing it in gratis.

I wasn't really referring to the gap between AOW and Master Diver or DM.

I realize that folks are probably saying that because I'm new I don’t know enough to comment on training requirements, so just so you all know where I'm coming from...

You guys and gals who have many dives under your belt are very knowledgeable and base you evaluation of the various training method based on what you know....I'm basing mine on what I don’t know but SHOULD know.

IMHO, iin order to be a safe diver, and not a burden to others on the boat/dive;
I should have more than a rudimentary control on my buoyancy. Not there yet
I should be comfortable enough that my SAC is reasonable. Not there yet
I should have my gear assembled properly, rigged to protect myself and the environment (no dangelies), and know how to handle both MY gear and my BUDDY"S gear. Accomplished
I should know, how to plan a dive, based on sound gas management principles, and then be able to execute that plan. Accomplished but by learned most outside the course
I should know ALL the proper safety drills and be able to perform them instinctively.Accomplished
I should know the diving techniques required to perform both a line guided, and free descent. Accomplished
I should know the basics of how to navigate, by line of sight and using a compass. Accomplished
I should know the proper methods to perform a basic drift dive, boat dive and shore dive. Have no clue how to do a drift dive
I should know how to float a marker from depth, should my buddy and I get blown off the site by surge, current, so that when we surface, we wont get bonked by a boat, jetski or at'hat flock of dicks landing adjacent to the dive site. Not there yet
I should know what the proper procedures/tools are needed to signal said boat that buddy and are off the dive site.
I should know how to assist, without risking them or myself, any diver around me should they have a problem. Not there yet

The list could go on, but here's my rub....I've got an AOW cert card (and only 10 dives under my belt), which allows me to pretty well attempt most recreational dives, and the only thing holding me back from doing this is the fact I do not have the necessary skills for most of these , and will not put myself, by buddy and the rast of the divers on that dive as risk. If PADI truly believes in "Dive to your level of comfort and skill" then they should structure theor course to increase both accordling.

Now if the AOW course was actually a course and not five "trust me" tour dives, the missing skills listed should be taught under this banner; making it truly an advanced course.

 

[Mystic Gringo]

...
I should know how to float a marker from depth, should my buddy and I get blown off the site by surge, current, so that when we surface, we wont get bonked by a boat, jetski or at'hat flock of dicks landing adjacent to the dive site. Not there yet ...

A flock of them, 'eh. :11doh: Wow... glad I don't dive where you do.

On a more serious note... I don't think your level of certification dictates how good you are (I know, been said a thousand times), and I think it is up to you, the diver, to figure out your limits... and capabilities. Diving is much like climbing... the gear you take is your life safety gear, and you rely on it for your safety. You also rely on your climbing buddy (belayer) to catch you when you fall... which happens much more often than running out of air or having any other issue underwater. I definately want to know about the abilities of the person I am climbing with before I start a climb... not their certification, but their abilities. Diving is the same for me. I never was instructed how to climb... I learned the way to belay, in 10 minutes... then we went climbing.

I do not fall back on blaming my certifying organization, nor even my instructor if I do something that is just blatently wrong... its my fault. Ignorance is no excuse for this sort of thing, we need to take the responsibility for our actions.

Sometimes people on the internet get into too much of a pissing match about number of dives, type of diving, or organizations. Diving is fun, not a competition... and I feel bad for the people who are bored enough with their diving to concetrate on these sorts of topics rather than on diving.

 

[TheMule]

Storm,

You and I are thinking along the same lines. Fortunately my best friend is a very skilled diver so I’m locked on him for brain downloads.

I also asked my instructor how much he would charge me for "guided" dives to help build my skills and comfort level. He told me $75. BARGAIN!!! I'll pay for the gas and lunch too!! I'm only going to AOW when my brain tells me that I'm ready to go. I need the OW skills set to solid memory before I move on.

 

[AlexMDiver]

PADI is a "performance based" educational system. If you can get through the check-points then you get through the check-points....
It is up to the instructor to assess whether you fulfill all requirements of each module to proceed. It really doesn't specify exactly how long this should take.

In a way it is quite a progressive learning system. Why shouldn't someone for example (as was touched upon in this thread) get a university degree or indeed a PhD a year quicker than others (and they do in real life) if they manage to understand to accomplish things quicker than others. In other words, why should a quick learner be slowed down by the slowest in the class.
Realistically though: The shorter the course, the shorter the success rate of completing all requirements most likely should be, since in reality only the few 'natural' divers should take to diving so quickly.
Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case since factors like money and economics enter the game (usually on part of the certifying shop/instructor). As an instructor I was once shouted at by the dive center for failing someone. Well...I am afraid that person really didn't belong in the water, and subconciously she knew it. She was passed by someone else.
Luckily, many terrible divers do not particularly enjoy diving and sooner or later give up.
The dangerous guys are those that think they are too good for their own good. Not sure an OW of 6 days would make them safer in any way.

 

[Web Monkey]

Originally Posted by Prestonhf01
i was cert. by padi 4 pool, n 4 ow dives.

Most of us were.

Not sure who "most" refers to.

If you came to Syracuse (National Aquatic), you would have had somewhere around 8 hours of reading and questions at home, (8) 1 hour classroom sessions, 8-12 hours of pool time and 5 OW dives.

If both you and the instructor weren't happy by the end of the 8 weeks, you could have as many additional classes and pool sessions as you wanted.

Terry

Most of us were.

Hey Seargent, say hi the boys in St Loius and Tignish!