PADI Instructors

[D_B]

It is not nor has it ever been a signal of distress. It can be a sign of distress

That is what I should have said, sorry, poor choice of words on my part
DB

 

[Walter]

That is what I should have said, sorry, poor choice of words on my part

Nope. You were describing the use of placing the mask on the forehead as a signal, not as a sign. It wasn't a poor choice of words, it was working with a different concept.

Why is there a big deal about having your mask on your forehead indicating a sign of distress (slight or otherwise)? People in distress seem to have put there masks up more often then not, as has been mentioned here more than a few times. it is taught that is the signal for distress and we need to agree to keep it as such ... think it doesn't matter ? ... maybe I'll just start using a "thumbs-up" as the "I'm OK signal" ... It's just a signal after all , I don't have to follow it do I ?

 

[Ana]

Well I guess it's a personal opinion thing, I find that my mask fits just as good under the hood, and if there's a way to add a bit of 'insurance', however small, why not?

The first part of that statement should be the core answer for this subject.

First of all IT IS A PERSONAL opinion thing. Furthermore, YOU find that YOUR mask fits just as good that way and YOU feel there is additional insurance. There is no reason for anyone to argue that logic.

Just like there is no reason for anyone to argue the logic that others use for THEIR masks and the way it fits THEM.

However, it is normal to encounter extremely pathetic and completely absurd situations when it comes to this subjet.
Let me ilustrate a very typical example, starting with the ingredients:
-One jack*** not old enough to have more than a couple hundred dives (most likely not more than a couple of dozens). Probably just completed some certification and can't wait to bigdeal it.
-A group of 3 or 4 divers comfortably waiting in the surface for a boat to pick them up. Enphasis on "COMFORTABLY", they just finished a dive and while they wait for the boat to pick up others, they are holding a conversation. Obviously if they are holding a conversation chances are their 2nd stage is not on their mouth and their masks are where THEY like them to be; be it forehead, still set on their face or pocket of BC, I don't remember exactly the other 2 (because it is not my place to remember those things)

Now Mr. jack*** decides to leave his group and start swimming in the direction of these 3 people while using what he thought was a voice of authority, but actually sounded like a bad imitation of Terminator. His words (and I quote) "ARE YOU UNDER DISTRESS?" directed to the person with the mask in the forehead (me). Who in the world say those things in a real situation? I mean, besides pag. 17 line 24 of the manual XYZ.
That's not all, when this man was informed in a couple of words that he better keep away, he then proceeded to complaint (more like a whine actualy) that his group was up before us; so we better don't get pick up before them since we are just "pretending" to need assistance.

Unfortunately this isn't an isolated case. I don't remember when it started but seems like the last decade complete strangers feel the need to tell me that it is wrong of me to place MY mask in MY forehead. They use all kind of arguments: it will fall off, it will fog, it may even distract a rescue person from attending a TRUE emergency. I bet a pregnant woman smocking in a bar wouldn't get as much warnings and stupid remarks as people that simply like their masks in their foreheads.

For the first 5 years or so it was entertainment but eventually it gets old. If you don't like to put your mask in your forehead, don't do it. But please keep the comments to yourself, if you HAVE to say something just wait until the person is outisde the range of your voice. Trust me, that person has heard your arguments already and does not agree.

 

[Ana]

.. as has been mentioned here more than a few times. it is taught that is the signal for distress and we need to agree to keep it as such ... think it doesn't matter ? ... maybe I'll just start using a "thumbs-up" as the "I'm OK signal" ...


DB

Reading this, I get the feeling that because it is taught the complete diving community should follow it.

I have issues with the reasoning.
1-I'm not sure it is taught by everyone, at least I sure hope it is not.
2-Caused by a plethora of reassons, sometimes the information transmitted as facts and/or rules are wrong.

Examples? sure, Flat Earth being the center of universe was widely accepted for quite a while.

More recent and related? of course, There are nitrox classes where the students are taught to roll the tanks after they are done putting O2 and plain air. I really like that one. Do they think the molecules of pure O2 are racists and will not mix with the O2 molecules from the air, for sure not the low life Nitrogen molecules, never mind the little portion of "other gases" ... pffff there goes the neigborhood, I refuse to give up my molecular space!!!!.. don't get close or I'll split my atoms.
Give me a break, at an average 3000 pounds_per_square_inch there is not a whole lot of room for separation, it doesn't take a PhD in Chemistry to say that is pure unadulterated bull.

So... as much as I agree with you that is very convenient to have common signs and signals it is inapropiate to follow inacurate teachings. The majority of the people that get in trouble do not place their mask in their forehead, maybe some do, but not most of them. Which makes the "taught" assumption a misintrepretation. Mask on forehead should not be looked at any more than a watch on right wrist, or second stage coming out of the left side, some people do just fine using THEIR stuff their way.

 

[Walter]

Darlin',

I miss you since you moved to the panhandle. It was great seeing you at the wedding!

That DM was ridicuolus, wasn't he?

 

[SteveDiver]

I still cant see how mask on head signals distress. No mask at all yes, mask thrown from head or ripped off yes but placed on forehead no. Could be any reason but probably not distress.
Ive certainly never seen a distressed diver make their first move to put the mask nicely on their head

I agree....If I saw a mask on someone's head it would not draw any special attention.

 

[subaquaman]

I agree....If I saw a mask on someone's head it would not draw any special attention.

If an individual panics, their intial reaction is to seek something familiar, a sense of normality. This is why a diver might panic and bolt to the surface, because submerged is not the natural place for a human. It's the same with the equipment. If a diver breaks the surface and spits the reg from their mouth and removing the mask from their eyes and nose (to allow for unobstructed, natural breathing and sight) it is a sign, of course not a confirmation, but an indication that the diver is uncomfortable.

However, a diver in control would know of the risk of losing their mask by putting it on their forehead and would have the awareness to put it around their neck or leaving it in place.

Just my 2 cents!

 

[whitetigerdiver]

I have a very basic question mostly directed toward PADI Instructors but I am interested in other agenicies' instructor comments also.

I did my open water cert. with IDEA and my advanced cert. with PADI. In my open water course I was instructed, correctly I think, to never wear my mask on my head. The obvious reasons, it is seen by many people to be a distress signal and, I think more importantly, if a wave knocks it off it's gone and you are out of luck. I think this is/was taught by all the agencies.

Naturally this was really not discussed much in the PADI advanced course as you should already know this protocol by the time you take the advanced course.

I have always practiced this and don't even think about pulling my mask down around my neck. Over the years I have seen a few people wearing their masks on their forehead but not a lot. So few in fact that I probably never conciuosly noticed it most of the time.

Now here's the kicker. I was recently at a local dive spot that many people visit regularly but that I myself had never been to. While I was there I saw probably 25 divers wearing their masks on their heads and turned around backwards. It was very noticable and I thought it looked so strange that I just had to ask.

What in the world is going on here? Did I miss the memo or something, why does everyone go around with their masks not only on their head but turned around backwards?

A PADI instructor happened to be there with a group doing their open water check out dives. He told me that it was common place, a recent change in the PADI protocol, and that he taught this in all his courses. He must have taught everyone there at one time or another that's for sure. He went on to explain that a person in distress would not take the time to turn their masks around backwards so it is not seen as a distress signal.

When I mentioned to him about the increased possibility of losing the mask when worn on the head he chuckled and said that happen to a fellow he had sold a $75.00 mask to not long after it was purchased and he never recovered it.

:06: So the question is. Is this a local phenomenon, has PADI recently started to teach this habit or was this PADI instructor some kind of nut?

These were very intelligent people doctors and engineers and the like and they all just thought nothing of it. I wish I had pictures of these folks I could post it really looks alien to see everyone entering and exiting with their masks on backwards. I don't know if I could ever get used to it but it sure didn't seem to be noticed by anyone else there.

They probably thought I looked like some kind of freak with my mask down around my neck. :11: I'm sure I was noticed by someone, I probably stuck out like a sore thumb. :33:

As an instructor for five years, with over 200 certs, I've NEVER taught my students that. In fact, and I know I'm in the minority here in San Diego, I tell them the mask is either on the face or in your hand. When entering or exiting the water it should be on your face. I do not advocate around the neck, the simply reason is because each time you pull it up over your chin etc., you stretch the strap, and one day it can break on the way out.

If the mask is on your head its considered a sign of distress, and the other more obvious fact (and probably more important to most people) is that you can lose a $75+ mask. Most dive shops I know, are advocating teaching the students to wear their masks the "cool" way (backwords on the head) I still believe its to increase revenues!

Betsy
PADI MSDT

 

[smb1014]

I am a PADI Divemaster candidate and when ever I help out the instructors at the shop we always tell the students that if they leave their masks on their forehead it is a major sign of distress. After telling the students this once we tell them that we will splash them with water if they do it again. They usually get the message after a few splashes of water and a few laughs. I was recently at Dutch Springs and I was doing my rescue class many OW students from another shop had their masks on their forehead. We had to ask many times if they were OK. After a few times my instructor politely reminded the instructor of the other shop and thankfully we didn't have to actually rescue any one.

 

[paolov]

just to comment on one of the reasons (published) why the mask on the forehead is discouraged by PADI.

the three Es' of SCUBA, one is EDUCATION one is EQUIPMENT

education teaches the student diver to take care of their equipment ;

as having your own equipment makes your dive pleasant as you are aware of the nuances of your own gear. hence it may signal you that something MAY be wrong if the fit changes at some point during the dive.

since taking care of your equipment encompases not losing your equipment, and the mask on the forehead is more likely to get knocked off but not always in this manner. this being said, the STUDENT diver is reminded not to place the mask in such a manner , as it may be construed that the student may have forgotten not to put it in their forehead MAY mean they are having a stress moment that they forgot the RECOMMENDATION not to put it on the forehead.