Curtis Dawson
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Some people at my dive shop that say that the PADI master diver rating is over rated if you plan on becoming an instructor. Any thoughts from others would be appreciated.
PADI master scuba diver rating
- Thread starter Curtis Dawson
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If you mean MSD, I say it's over-rated either way unless for some reason your wallet is too heavy. You'll find plenty of threads here discussing the relative pros and cons.
If you mean MSDT, different story.
If you mean MSDT, different story.
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Yes, many threads. Regarding becoming an Instructor all you need is Divemaster (which requires EFR and Rescue) & required number of dives. No specialties (that would go toward MSD or otherwise) needed, though taking specialties never hurts (especially Deep and perhaps Search & Rescue--I believe you have to do one dive from these as part of the "new' DM course).
drrich2
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Curtis:
Sounds like you're referring to the PADI Master Scuba Diver certification. It's a strongly debated contentious topic on the forum for a number of reasons. I'll sum up the basics.
Pro.s:
1.) It gives some a 'challenge' or goal to pursue, who then pursue more formal dive training than they otherwise would've, some of which may result in better divers.
2.) It gives some a sense of accomplishment upon attaining the goal. Particularly since PADI bills it as the pinnacle of recreational diving in their system (though if you really want greatness, you need great instructors, and you may find it worthwhile to pursue GUE Fundamentals training or some technical diving training).
3.) I imagine some people like it; sort of like a personal vanity plate?
Con.s:
1.) Since it's sort of like a 'degree' (some people will argue with me on that) in that you complete other courses to qualify for it and it's not a course itself, some people oppose it because it's not a course in & of itself.
2.) Some people complain about the $50 cost, and advise you spend that money on more diving or more actual courses. If you are down to your last $50, and getting the card will cause you to miss those things (or the rent), they may have a point. I don't think this is usually the case.
3.) Some people are offended by the title, either thinking it should be reserved for master divers in the Navy (or those of equivalent in-water competency) or other high-end 'masters of the craft' gurus. PADI is a capitalistic business that markets goods & services to turn a profit, so that's not going to happen.
Alternatives:
1.) NAUI has a Master Scuba Diver course that's an actual course (rather than having a bunch of prerequisite courses), and a text book (which is well-regarded and worth having for me, even though I never took the course). I believe SEI also has such a course. NAUI's goal was to teach the student the knowledge & skill of an instructor, minus what's specific to teaching students.
2.) GUE Fundamentals is often spoken of highly on the forum.
3.) Obviously if you 'challenge yourself' with demanding environments like cave diving, you're training and skills will get dialed in and carry over to help you in recreational diving.
4.) Dive a lot under a wide range of conditions, many demanding.
Richard.
Sounds like you're referring to the PADI Master Scuba Diver certification. It's a strongly debated contentious topic on the forum for a number of reasons. I'll sum up the basics.
Pro.s:
1.) It gives some a 'challenge' or goal to pursue, who then pursue more formal dive training than they otherwise would've, some of which may result in better divers.
2.) It gives some a sense of accomplishment upon attaining the goal. Particularly since PADI bills it as the pinnacle of recreational diving in their system (though if you really want greatness, you need great instructors, and you may find it worthwhile to pursue GUE Fundamentals training or some technical diving training).
3.) I imagine some people like it; sort of like a personal vanity plate?
Con.s:
1.) Since it's sort of like a 'degree' (some people will argue with me on that) in that you complete other courses to qualify for it and it's not a course itself, some people oppose it because it's not a course in & of itself.
2.) Some people complain about the $50 cost, and advise you spend that money on more diving or more actual courses. If you are down to your last $50, and getting the card will cause you to miss those things (or the rent), they may have a point. I don't think this is usually the case.
3.) Some people are offended by the title, either thinking it should be reserved for master divers in the Navy (or those of equivalent in-water competency) or other high-end 'masters of the craft' gurus. PADI is a capitalistic business that markets goods & services to turn a profit, so that's not going to happen.
Alternatives:
1.) NAUI has a Master Scuba Diver course that's an actual course (rather than having a bunch of prerequisite courses), and a text book (which is well-regarded and worth having for me, even though I never took the course). I believe SEI also has such a course. NAUI's goal was to teach the student the knowledge & skill of an instructor, minus what's specific to teaching students.
2.) GUE Fundamentals is often spoken of highly on the forum.
3.) Obviously if you 'challenge yourself' with demanding environments like cave diving, you're training and skills will get dialed in and carry over to help you in recreational diving.
4.) Dive a lot under a wide range of conditions, many demanding.
Richard.
Richard, that's a pretty fair summary of the Pros & Cons. I would add one Alternative: complete 5 specialties -which is a challenge/goal in itself - and don't bother getting the MSD card
I think the "down to your last $50" comment is somewhat disingenuous. If people like paying $50 for a card that adds no value/certification, they can send it to me via Paypal. I will send a pretty bit of plastic by return mail and donate the remaining $45 to charity.
GUE-F, cave diving certs or a degree are not valid comparisons to the MSD 'rating' (it's not a certification as it doesn't certify you to do anything)
Obviously I am not a fan of PADI's MSD card
I think the "down to your last $50" comment is somewhat disingenuous. If people like paying $50 for a card that adds no value/certification, they can send it to me via Paypal. I will send a pretty bit of plastic by return mail and donate the remaining $45 to charity.
GUE-F, cave diving certs or a degree are not valid comparisons to the MSD 'rating' (it's not a certification as it doesn't certify you to do anything)
Obviously I am not a fan of PADI's MSD card
But remember that the vast majority of what you can learn comes from experience in the water, not from taking a lot of specialty classes. Join a club or just find some more experienced buddies and become the driver/pizza buyer in exchange for being able to pick up experience. Get some dives under your belt and you will be able to benefit from a professional instructor's time in a completely different way.
If you plan to really try a learning challenge you'll need a fair bit of skill and experience before you are ready to even begin a Fundies course.
The PADI MSD card is one of the reasons why the notion that PADI = Put Another Dollar In has some basis in reality.
It might just as well be called the PADI Check Writing Specialty.
It might just as well be called the PADI Check Writing Specialty.
flots am
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AFAIK, PADI "master diver" which has nothing to do with "divemaster" is just a sampling of some other specialties, and not the actual specialty classes.
It's not required in order to become an instructor, however they do require other ratings, including DM.
flots.
Sorry, but it can be required in some cases.
I had (still have, actually) a student who was a typical vacation, warm water resort diver who had never done a single specialty, including nitrox. He is a scientist, and he wanted to do some dives in a national park related to the studies he was doing there. The park told him he could only do it if he had master scuba diver certification. We worked on that, making sure he had 5 good and useful specialties. We did nitrox (which he needed for his work), TecReational Diver (similar to GUE Fundamentals), Advanced Diver Planning (a very through look at everything you need to know to plan and execute dives in any setting), Deep Diver, Dry Suit (the lake temperatures were below 40° F), and a couple of others, so he had more than enough. Once he had that certification, he was allowed to do his diving. More importantly, he was now a totally different diver from what he was before that. In his case, it was a very worthwhile pursuit.
On the other hand, I am an instructor for two different agencies (PADI and TDI), and I am certified for both Advanced Trimix and cave diving. I do not, however, have the Master Scuba Diver certification.
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