PADI Self Reliant vs SDI Solo

[halocline]

Remember, this is a surface swim. A snorkel and mask are useless. And now that I think about it, I probably didn't use my fins very effectively at the surface. I kept thinking that if I could just drop a foot or two this would be much easier.

Snorkel and mask are, of course very useful at the surface, in fact, that's the only place you use a snorkel. It's much less work to swim on the surface without having to lift your face out of the water to breathe. Isn't that obvious? Why would fins be any less useful on the surface than underwater, I mean as long as you're not sticking your feet up out of the water.

Try swimming several laps wearing nothing but a swimsuit, then try the same distance again with a wetsuit, mask, fins, and snorkel. See which one is easier. In rougher conditions the gear makes even more difference. The added mass of a tank slows you down a bit, but it's still WAY easier to cover distance than just swimming with no gear.

I'm not trying to criticize you for having trouble with the surface swim. I'm just voicing an opinion that divers seeking training in self reliance with the intent of solo diving should be required to demonstrate good surface skills and the ability to swim some distance. I do think the standards should be higher for solo diving, because there is no buddy to assist you on the surface, either by towing, assisting with buoyancy, or simply going for help. Solo diving is quite a bit riskier than diving with a functional buddy for all sorts of reasons, not just the lack of an alternate air source. In fact, to me that's the least of the issues, and I believe the emphasis on a pony tank is totally misplaced. Mitigating the increased risk of solo diving includes confidence in navigation, stress and task management, strong ability to assess risk and use good judgement in all aspects of diving, good planning, and good fitness. I don't know what the PADI and SDI classes emphasize, but I know that these types of skills are typically more associated with rigorous technical training. Or, in some cases, years of diving experience with a more 'holistic' approach to self-training.

I have to say I'm a little skeptical of PADI's venture into 'solo' (oops, I meant 'self reliant) diving. And I say that as a PADI divemaster.

 

[Wookie]

The last two sentences of your link (Mike Ball Expeditions has a special protocol to qualify guests as solo divers. I suspect that if presented with a Solo card by a new guest, they would say, "Very pretty. Now let's see if you can qualify to solo dive with us.") is exactly what happened to me, on exactly that boat.

Mike Ball Expeditions had a solo protocol long before SDI did. They follow the same protocol today. Show up with your shiny new Solo card, still follow their protocol. When I show up with my shiny new solo instructor card, I still follow their protocol.

 

[RJP]

I don't know what the PADI and SDI classes emphasize...

I have to say I'm a little skeptical of PADI's venture into 'solo' (oops, I meant 'self reliant) diving. And I say that as a PADI divemaster.

Given the former statement, I'm not sure how we're supposed to interpret the latter.

---------- Post added May 28th, 2015 at 10:45 AM ----------

Cool! I wasn't aware that NAUI OW class covered redundant gas sources....it certainly didn't when I took it.

It covered the use of H valves when I took it.

An H-valve isn't a redundant gas source. It merely provides redundant access to a single gas source in the event of a first-stage failure. In any other respect an H-valve is no-more a "redundant gas source" that your octo.

 

[halocline]

Given the former statement, I'm not sure how we're supposed to interpret the latter.

Feel free to interpret my skepticism with skepticism!

 

[uncfnp]

Snorkel and mask are, of course very useful at the surface, in fact, that's the only place you use a snorkel. It's much less work to swim on the surface without having to lift your face out of the water to breathe. Isn't that obvious? Why would fins be any less useful on the surface than underwater, I mean as long as you're not sticking your feet up out of the water.

No problem. It may have just been my instructor but I was not allowed to use use the snorkel or swim underwater in any way. Purely a surface swim, not even face underwater. Hence the reason I said mask and snorkel were not useful.

I take it this is not a universal requirement. Interesting. Yes, that would have made things easier. That, and no incoming tide.

 

[raftingtigger]

Snorkel and mask are, of course very useful at the surface, in fact, that's the only place you use a snorkel. It's much less work to swim on the surface without having to lift your face out of the water to breathe. Isn't that obvious? Why would fins be any less useful on the surface than underwater, I mean as long as you're not sticking your feet up out of the water.

Try swimming several laps wearing nothing but a swimsuit, then try the same distance again with a wetsuit, mask, fins, and snorkel. See which one is easier. In rougher conditions the gear makes even more difference. The added mass of a tank slows you down a bit, but it's still WAY easier to cover distance than just swimming with no gear.

I'm not trying to criticize you for having trouble with the surface swim. I'm just voicing an opinion that divers seeking training in self reliance with the intent of solo diving should be required to demonstrate good surface skills and the ability to swim some distance. I do think the standards should be higher for solo diving, because there is no buddy to assist you on the surface, either by towing, assisting with buoyancy, or simply going for help. Solo diving is quite a bit riskier than diving with a functional buddy for all sorts of reasons, not just the lack of an alternate air source. In fact, to me that's the least of the issues, and I believe the emphasis on a pony tank is totally misplaced. Mitigating the increased risk of solo diving includes confidence in navigation, stress and task management, strong ability to assess risk and use good judgement in all aspects of diving, good planning, and good fitness. I don't know what the PADI and SDI classes emphasize, but I know that these types of skills are typically more associated with rigorous technical training. Or, in some cases, years of diving experience with a more 'holistic' approach to self-training.

Well said! (my emphasis on the bolded text above). Having redundant gear helps reduce the stress of a failure, and also increases the post-failure options available - BUT does NOT replace the use of good judgement and planning, nor that of a solid skill set.

 

[tursiops]

Snorkel and mask are, of course very useful at the surface, in fact, that's the only place you use a snorkel. It's much less work to swim on the surface without having to lift your face out of the water to breathe. Isn't that obvious? Why would fins be any less useful on the surface than underwater, I mean as long as you're not sticking your feet up out of the water.

Most folks seem to find surface swimming in full gear much easier on their backs than on their stomachs, partly because the fins work better that way, partly because it is more relaxing in body position. And, of course, a snorkel is of less use on your back....

I believe the emphasis on a pony tank is totally misplaced.

So you don't think having gas to breath underwater is very important? Most folks think that is the prime directive!

Mitigating the increased risk of solo diving includes confidence in navigation, stress and task management, strong ability to assess risk and use good judgement in all aspects of diving, good planning, and good fitness.

Yes...see below.

I don't know what the PADI and SDI classes emphasize

I agree, you don't. Try the things you said above.

I have to say I'm a little skeptical of PADI's venture into 'solo' (oops, I meant 'self reliant) diving. And I say that as a PADI divemaster.

I can't think of anything in the DM class that would qualify you to comment on a solo class that you know nothing about.

 

[uncfnp]

Most folks seem to find surface swimming in full gear much easier on their backs than on their stomachs, partly because the fins work better that way, partly because it is more relaxing in body position. And, of course, a snorkel is of less use on your back....

Yep, that's the way we did it.

 

[Pyramid65]

The instructor I've talked to about the the subject teaches the PADI course with the SDI manual which seems kinda odd to me. Doesn't PADI have it's own manual? If not that is odd as well. My initial question came about because I was curious who would accept/not accept the PADI card just for the wording alone. I go into the water on every dive with the Solo/Self Reliant attitude. I'm self sufficient out of the water, have been all my life it stands to reason that I'd be that way under water. Since my 21st dive, every one of my dives have been sidemount for the reason I stated above. having said that, if you need me I'm there for you and if I need me, I'm there for me too

 

[Nemrod]

For years I have been told I was doing it wrong and that I should swim face down with my snorkel oblivious to jet skis, motor boats and whatever else not to mention being able to navigate when surface swimming on my back while transitioning from shore entry to the dive site and back. Surface swimming face down is inefficient at best and possibly dangerous.

I do not sgree or accept the oft repeated and unsubstantiated "increased risk of solo diving" as there simply is no evidence or proof that solo has any increased risk and an argument can be made that it is safer than at least the typical buddy team.

N