PADI tables finally going away?

[The Chairman]

20 computers at even $200/each would amount to a substantial expense.

It's called an "investment". I have six student regs and somehow I was able to afford the expense.

Then there's a potential liability issue, I would guess: "I got bent using your computer".

You have more of a liability potential from a reg that malfunctioned.

I have chapter answers and test results on file I can use to prove a student knew the tables, but not sure how we'd cover ourselves on computer instruction.

Sounds like you need to adjust your questions. A SMART lawyer might even be able to argue that you were negligent by NOT teaching his client how to use a computer since you KNOW that tables are almost never used in the real world of OW diving. That type of suit was brought against a New Jersey Health Club over an AED recently. How can you call him a certified diver if you haven't taught them how to use the most prevalent tool for determining your NDL?

 

[rstofer]

Three or four nights on the tables? They can be easily explained and understood in less than an hour by a competent instructor. Besides, three or four nights exceeds the length of many certification courses these days.

Well, see, there's the problem! The course has been shortened so much that there isn't even time to master (and I mean master) something as simple as dive tables. They can be discussed in a few minutes and students can stumble through exercises within the hour but they won't have them mastered until they have used them over and over. Repetition is the key.

Left to themselves, only the truly pedantic divers will ever spend the time to learn the tables. All the other divers just want to stumble through and head for the resort where the DM will hold their hands. Just enough effort to get by... Then buy a computer...

I don't have a diary of the classroom portion of my 1988 NAUI program but I know we spent a few nights in the classroom. We discussed the tables and worked problems every single night. Until we had them mastered. To pass the NAUI written exam, all dive table problems had to be correct. It was ok to get less than 100% on the test but the table problems had to be perfect.

In 1988, the only thing keeping a diver alive was the tables and a few gauges.

Richard

 

[rstofer]

Teaching them how to use the GEAR that they will actually be using only makes sense, which is probably why some oppose it! Too many divers have no idea what to do when their alarm goes off or how to track their dives since NO ONE HAS TAUGHT THEM. That's the real travesty: we refuse to teach these important skills.

I think it would be very easy to teach computer use if everyone was using the same computer. This is easy to accomplish for the shop that routinely puts computers on their rental regs (as yours).

The problem is that there are dozens of different computers. Sure, they all do the same things (in general) but their button operations vary widely. The instructions are almost impossible to decipher.

There is no standard approach to indicating dive problems (MOD, NDL (pretty easy to see), DECO obligation). Then too, the display are so small they are almost impossible to see. There is that little bitty icon that indicates I have a virtual ceiling. Hm...

I don't agree that tables should be omitted but I do agree that computers should be added. So what if the course is a little longer?

Richard

 

[farsidefan1]

I'm all in favor of having a class available to teach computer usage! I'm comfortable with mine now - I got it before my first ocean dive, but I had no idea how to use the planning function early on. I was always at a resort following a divemaster but duh, I should have spent more time with the manual (not that many manual are usefulll to a total beginner- all manuals should be tested on a newbie and author should be punished if newbies can't figure it out). I think time spent on computer usage is more likely to be usefull than extra time on the tables. Teach the tables for theoretical understanding but spend time on the computer for practical diving.

 

[Randy43068]

Dive computers are so varied in their operation, I don't see how one could incorporate that into an open water class. I can't imagine an instructor being proficient in the operation of every dive computer out there. It's impossible!

If you have a computer the shop where you bought it should teach you how it works. If I buy a VCR ( DVD these days ) I expect the store to show me how it works.

 

[muddiver]

I'm wondering who will pay for these computers. Should we require students show up with a computer as part of their BOW gear? Jack the BOW price up to cover the difference between issuing tables and issuing a computer? Putting 10 computers into the rental fleet would strain most LDS budgets at a point where many are already struggling.

Three or four nights on the tables? They can be easily explained and understood in less than an hour by a competent instructor. Besides, three or four nights exceeds the length of many certification courses these days.

About two years ago I went diving on one of my favorite six pack boats off Maui. Every diver was issued a computer by the boat crew that was mounted in a hose mount boot. My computer just happend to be the same brand, and I think model. Therefore they just checked the dive profile on mine after each dive instead of issuing another computer to me. I am going to assume they were either covering their behind by knowing the dive profile of each diver, or possably doing a DAN study with manually input data.

 

[miketsp]

Multi-level reef or coasting dives, I never see anyone using tables. It's either so shallow it doesn't matter or they either have their own computer or they're blindly following a DM.

Square profile wreck dives, I regularly see divers running a cross-check against a table and very often the pre-dive briefing will be done with reference to a table.

 

[James R]

The tables should be taught because even if you fly a computer, it can crap out. Knowing the tables could save your dive vacation.

Agreed.

Unless you are on charters/led expeditions (ie Cozumel boat dives) where I have NEVER seen anyone on the boats do any sort of dive plan past "don't go past xx feet and we dive for xx minutes then we take 1hr interval."

Or have the iPhone w/dive plan app heh

 

[dhuskins]

I have used a computer on every dive I have taken, other than my Discovery Scuba Dive Experience. What I like about my computer is it keeps detailed records for me and lets me upload the data to my PC. What I don't like about my computer is it behaves like a black box and doesn't give me a good sense of security on the degree of my conditions. Moreover, it is poor at letting me plan my next dive. I can see all my options on a table whereas the computer only shows me one configuration at a time.

I take my dive tables with me on every dive. If I want to consider alternatives, the tables are the only effective answer.

 

[Chugwhump]

Imagine how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges..

SUPERIOR!!

Chug