PDC Hotel recommendations for two young (and new) divers
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You can, but I think you'd be fine in a $50 skin, with 8# less lead. If I am wrong, rent a shorty to wear over it there. As you decide what kind of diving you are going to do locally, then select that suit later.
annlaur
Contributor
Good for you on the weight loss. Since you're planning on shedding more pounds, then don't go out and spend 300 USD on a wetsuit : those are even more unforgiving than vest style BCDs (Anyone interested in an almost brand new XS Cressi 7 mm ? The stupid thing has "shrunk" so badly I can't even pull it up past my knees… 
)
Until you've stabilized your weight, don't buy expensive wetsuits (I think drysuits can more easily adapt to different sizes, but not sure about that). See if Tank Ha rents full length wetsuits (and how much it would cost for the number of dives you plan to do) or buy a cheap 1, 3 or 5 mm full suit. Take your measurements and look at sales and discontinued items on different websites and check eBay for used stuff. Many manufacters post their sizing charts on the Internet, so definitely check that too, especially if the item is not refundable or if returning it will cost you a lot in shipping.
A wetsuit in not life saving equipment for a typical recreational dive in the Carribean. If you find out you're cold in a 1 or 3 mm, rent a shortie from the store and wear it over it. If you're too hot in a 5 mm, flush it with water (since water is free and rentals are not, I prefer the 5 mm suit, even if it means carrying more weights. But considering you may not be using that suit for a long period of time, go with the best value and fit you can find. Remeber than a well fitting 3 mm will be warmer than a loose 5 mm).
Some companies make "stretchier" wetsuits that are a bit easier to don and more forgiving if you loose/gain a few pounds (not 20 pounds, though…
. Some say those are not as insulated and longlasting than other suits, but if you can find a good deal on old models, look up the brands Henderson hyperstrech and Pinnacle.
A "dive tee-shirt" (don't know the correct word in English, "souris" in French) is a thin (between 0,5 mm and 3 mm) neoprene top with or without a hood than can be worn underneath a suit to add a bit more insulation. They're not too expensive (so doesn't hurt as much if you have to spend USD 50 for a smaller one in a few month) and will make any wetsuit sensibly warmer, as the torso (and head) areas are the parts of the body than need the more protection from the cold.
)Until you've stabilized your weight, don't buy expensive wetsuits (I think drysuits can more easily adapt to different sizes, but not sure about that). See if Tank Ha rents full length wetsuits (and how much it would cost for the number of dives you plan to do) or buy a cheap 1, 3 or 5 mm full suit. Take your measurements and look at sales and discontinued items on different websites and check eBay for used stuff. Many manufacters post their sizing charts on the Internet, so definitely check that too, especially if the item is not refundable or if returning it will cost you a lot in shipping.
A wetsuit in not life saving equipment for a typical recreational dive in the Carribean. If you find out you're cold in a 1 or 3 mm, rent a shortie from the store and wear it over it. If you're too hot in a 5 mm, flush it with water (since water is free and rentals are not, I prefer the 5 mm suit, even if it means carrying more weights. But considering you may not be using that suit for a long period of time, go with the best value and fit you can find. Remeber than a well fitting 3 mm will be warmer than a loose 5 mm).
Some companies make "stretchier" wetsuits that are a bit easier to don and more forgiving if you loose/gain a few pounds (not 20 pounds, though…
. Some say those are not as insulated and longlasting than other suits, but if you can find a good deal on old models, look up the brands Henderson hyperstrech and Pinnacle.A "dive tee-shirt" (don't know the correct word in English, "souris" in French) is a thin (between 0,5 mm and 3 mm) neoprene top with or without a hood than can be worn underneath a suit to add a bit more insulation. They're not too expensive (so doesn't hurt as much if you have to spend USD 50 for a smaller one in a few month) and will make any wetsuit sensibly warmer, as the torso (and head) areas are the parts of the body than need the more protection from the cold.
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Yeah, I didn't think of that. :silly: I have outgrown wet suits. :blush: I've also stretched a skin suit. I need to donate a few.
annlaur
Contributor
Almost forgot : as Don said, BP&W and back-inflation are two different concepts.
My previous post was about BP&W (back-plate and wing) with a horgarthian harness (a long webbing that is thread thru the holes on the backplate, different D rings and a buckle, and that once set up becomes the shoulder straps and waist belt of the system).
Since the wing in this type of configuration is located in between the back-plate and tank, a BP&W is by definition a back-inflate style of buoyancy device.
However, a vest-style BCD can also be back-inflate (meaning the inflatable pocket(s) are located solely on the back, not on your sides or around the stomach area for exemple). Back-inflation will help with trim but it won't make the BCD any more adjustable (in a vest-style BCD, the shoulder straps and waist belt have specific maximum lengths and may only be tightened by a few inches).
Likewise, some BP&W systems have "luxury harnesses", "padded shoulders", etc. (such as the Transpac). Those cannot be adjusted at will, so will have the same limitations as a vest-style BCD as far as sizing (and D-ring customisation) go.
If you want a kit that can grow (or shrink) with you and be adjusted almost endlessly, the hogarthian harness is the way to go. And it's only available on a BP&W system.
My previous post was about BP&W (back-plate and wing) with a horgarthian harness (a long webbing that is thread thru the holes on the backplate, different D rings and a buckle, and that once set up becomes the shoulder straps and waist belt of the system).
Since the wing in this type of configuration is located in between the back-plate and tank, a BP&W is by definition a back-inflate style of buoyancy device.
However, a vest-style BCD can also be back-inflate (meaning the inflatable pocket(s) are located solely on the back, not on your sides or around the stomach area for exemple). Back-inflation will help with trim but it won't make the BCD any more adjustable (in a vest-style BCD, the shoulder straps and waist belt have specific maximum lengths and may only be tightened by a few inches).
Likewise, some BP&W systems have "luxury harnesses", "padded shoulders", etc. (such as the Transpac). Those cannot be adjusted at will, so will have the same limitations as a vest-style BCD as far as sizing (and D-ring customisation) go.
If you want a kit that can grow (or shrink) with you and be adjusted almost endlessly, the hogarthian harness is the way to go. And it's only available on a BP&W system.
Good for you on the weight loss. Since you're planning on shedding more pounds, then don't go out and spend 300 USD on a wetsuit : those are even more unforgiving than vest style BCDs (Anyone interested in an almost brand new XS Cressi 7 mm ? The stupid thing has "shrunk" so badly I can't even pull it up past my knees…
I hadn't thought about that, it certainly is a good point. Though in 20 lbs I'll pretty much be at the "stable point". I'm 6'1" and have wide shoulders, 200 lbs is pretty much the lowest I could easily maintain. Probably won't be enough to see well defined abs, but I'll be healthy, and that's really what this is about. There are enough overtanned hairless douchebags in this World, there is no need to add another specimen to the pool.
I'm curious though -- why is it better to have less weights in the BC, as DandyDon suggested? My understanding is that the weights are there to provide neutral buoyancy in immersion, so what does it matter whether I need 30lbs or 22lbs of weight? Inquiring mind wants to know
annlaur
Contributor
One of the reasons we carry weight is because neoprene wetsuits are very buoyant on the surface. If you wear a thick wetsuit and no lead, you will float and be unable to descend (unless you have very heavy double steel tanks and no body fat).
So the lead offsets the positive buoyancy so that you don't stay at the surface and can submerge.
Problem is, neoprene (which contains tiny emprisonned bubbles) loses its buoyancy as you descend.
To compensate, you need to add air in your BCD (hence the name, "buoyancy compensation device") so that you don't keep on descending and can achieve neutral buoyancy (=stay at the desired depth).
The more weights you carry (and the deeper you go), the more air you need to add to your BCD. That creates drag (more volume = more effort to propulse yourself thru water).
You have to fin harder, so use up more air, get more tired, etc.
One of the other reasons is that the tank and equipment feels heavy enough. Carrying 8 more pounds of weight at the surface is no fun.
PS: I'm just a basic OW diver, not an instructor. There might be other issues that I'm unaware of or forgot.
So the lead offsets the positive buoyancy so that you don't stay at the surface and can submerge.
Problem is, neoprene (which contains tiny emprisonned bubbles) loses its buoyancy as you descend.
To compensate, you need to add air in your BCD (hence the name, "buoyancy compensation device") so that you don't keep on descending and can achieve neutral buoyancy (=stay at the desired depth).
The more weights you carry (and the deeper you go), the more air you need to add to your BCD. That creates drag (more volume = more effort to propulse yourself thru water).
You have to fin harder, so use up more air, get more tired, etc.
One of the other reasons is that the tank and equipment feels heavy enough. Carrying 8 more pounds of weight at the surface is no fun.
PS: I'm just a basic OW diver, not an instructor. There might be other issues that I'm unaware of or forgot.
After I managed to spark a fight in the BCD forum, and following tons of help and suggestions (thanks to Annlaur for instigating this btw -- the French really are the best :cool2 I finally decided on my kit: https://dansdiveshop.ca/store/index...id=730&zenid=32ec1ae7cfe353815f0a349fd384a4e0
People seem very passionate about their gear choice, and there was this debacle about 30 or 40 lbs wing... dive shop said I should take 40 lbs, some people said it was too much and 30 lbs would be more than enough. If I ever dive with double steel tank at home some day (thinking for the future), I'm pretty certain 40 lbs won't too much. Even with a single alu tank, I don't see how having too much lift is bad? Worse comes to worse I leave the weighted STA on (6lbs)?
I also got a Suunto Vyper second hand from my uncle who no longer dives (I hear babies will do that to ya!) for an awesome price (basically same as a the Zoop). The whole kit will have the added bonus of matching my snorkeling gear, which purely coincidentally, is also blue.
I finally decided on my kit: https://dansdiveshop.ca/store/index...id=730&zenid=32ec1ae7cfe353815f0a349fd384a4e0People seem very passionate about their gear choice, and there was this debacle about 30 or 40 lbs wing... dive shop said I should take 40 lbs, some people said it was too much and 30 lbs would be more than enough. If I ever dive with double steel tank at home some day (thinking for the future), I'm pretty certain 40 lbs won't too much. Even with a single alu tank, I don't see how having too much lift is bad? Worse comes to worse I leave the weighted STA on (6lbs)?
I also got a Suunto Vyper second hand from my uncle who no longer dives (I hear babies will do that to ya!) for an awesome price (basically same as a the Zoop). The whole kit will have the added bonus of matching my snorkeling gear, which purely coincidentally, is also blue.
annlaur
Contributor
Looks like a nice set up. I'll have to read your thread, don't want to miss a good fight, lol.
On a more serious note. Just looked in more detail at the Halcyon Infinity System. From what I saw on your link, it comes with either a 30 or 40 lbs ECLIPSE wing. I looked those up, and they are listed as SINGLE TANK wings only (whereas the EVOLVE wings seem to work for both singles and doubles). If you are thinking you might dive doubles in the distant future, check with the shop/manufacturer to make sure the system is compatible with doubles.
Diving with a big wing when you don't actually need it (for example with a thin wetsuit and single tank) won't kill you (whereas the opposite, not having enough lift, could put you in real danger), but it will make your diving less enjoyable.
A big wide wing takes more volume and might wrap around a single tank like a taco, therefore creating more drag. You'll be less streamlined, need a bit more weight than if diving with a smaller wing, and use a bit more air (more volume to move around = more effort).
At least that's what I read (and it makes sense), but I don't know if it really is a PITA or something barely noticeable as I've never dived (dove ?) with a big wing.
Honestly, I find the set up a bit expensive. Halcyon is a reknowned, reputable brand, but if I were you, I'd get a cheaper BP&W set up with a 30lb wing, and then invest in a bigger wing when the need arises. The padded shoulders and Cinch harness seem like a good idea on paper, but I think they're more of a marketing gimmick. I was afraid when I bought my set up that the harness would be uncomfortable as it is just webbing or that I would have trouble donning my kit as there are no buckles for a quick adjust. Was happy to find out that it was a non-issue.
On a more serious note. Just looked in more detail at the Halcyon Infinity System. From what I saw on your link, it comes with either a 30 or 40 lbs ECLIPSE wing. I looked those up, and they are listed as SINGLE TANK wings only (whereas the EVOLVE wings seem to work for both singles and doubles). If you are thinking you might dive doubles in the distant future, check with the shop/manufacturer to make sure the system is compatible with doubles.
Diving with a big wing when you don't actually need it (for example with a thin wetsuit and single tank) won't kill you (whereas the opposite, not having enough lift, could put you in real danger), but it will make your diving less enjoyable.
A big wide wing takes more volume and might wrap around a single tank like a taco, therefore creating more drag. You'll be less streamlined, need a bit more weight than if diving with a smaller wing, and use a bit more air (more volume to move around = more effort).
At least that's what I read (and it makes sense), but I don't know if it really is a PITA or something barely noticeable as I've never dived (dove ?) with a big wing.
Honestly, I find the set up a bit expensive. Halcyon is a reknowned, reputable brand, but if I were you, I'd get a cheaper BP&W set up with a 30lb wing, and then invest in a bigger wing when the need arises. The padded shoulders and Cinch harness seem like a good idea on paper, but I think they're more of a marketing gimmick. I was afraid when I bought my set up that the harness would be uncomfortable as it is just webbing or that I would have trouble donning my kit as there are no buckles for a quick adjust. Was happy to find out that it was a non-issue.
cvrle1
Contributor
Completely agree. I saw this and I thought overkill for sure. Me being a new diver I would never think of getting a setup like this, and I just went through new BP/W purchase myself.
Halcyon is a great company, but you can read pages and pages of arguments on why they are great, be all end all, and why people dont like them and think they are way overpriced for what they sell.
This is what I bought, and it cost 6X less then the setup you have listed: BP/W (owner is great guy and if you ask him nicely he may put the price down to $299 for the whole package) There are also a lot of other packages on the same site that I would rather get then the one you have listed.
Good luck
Halcyon is a great company, but you can read pages and pages of arguments on why they are great, be all end all, and why people dont like them and think they are way overpriced for what they sell.
This is what I bought, and it cost 6X less then the setup you have listed: BP/W (owner is great guy and if you ask him nicely he may put the price down to $299 for the whole package) There are also a lot of other packages on the same site that I would rather get then the one you have listed.
Good luck
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