Peacock Fatality Accident Analysis

[Cave Diver]

I'm getting a vibe that there was a "leader buddy - follower buddy" thing going on here.

That's a possibility as well. There are also people that aren't comfortable being away from the line and prefer keeping it in sight at all times and following it rather than just diving close enough to reference it if needed.

I find it hard to imagine that I'd panic and bolt if I had the line, any line in sight, but there's no way to know what what triggered her response. Once someone crosses that threshold all of our rationalizations here go out the window because they're no longer acting rationally.

 

[rjack321]

Once someone crosses that threshold all of our rationalizations here go out the window because they're no longer acting rationally.

Agree, stop, think, breathe was not happening here

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

My turn to pick nits.



This is really more of an open question, not addressed specifically to Mat. His quote just brings up an interesting counterpoint.

Considering the amount of dives they are said to have in Peacock and the relatively short and easy section of cave they were in, isn't it reasonable to think they've probably dove through that section numerous times?

If so, shouldn't there have been some familiarity of coming from that direction after calling previous dives and turning to exit?

Even if they did end up here by doing jumps or attempting a circuit, surely this is not their first time in this section of the cave and something should have looked familiar. It's been a while since I've been at Peacock, but the last time I was that was the section we dove and I recall it being fairly distinctive.

Things are a whole lot different when you turn around and exit the same passage you come up, than when you are dropped in on the same passage from somewhere else entirely.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Just found out that this was her first dive doing a circuit/jumps of any sort while buddy in the lead had done this profile once or twice before. I hope the facts I've provided can help quiet down some of the wild guessing and speculation.

Thanks, IMO, thats huge.

 

[PfcAJ]

So we all pretty much seem to agree that the diver panicked for some reason. We think (based on the buddys description) that she became confused as to exit direction.

There were no lines, no cookies, no verification dive (to confirm you can complete the dive on gas/time/ guideline), no formal training on jumps/ circuits...and yet 'medical' has come up as a potential cause???? If all that was followed, what's to panic about? It wasn't followed, and an accident ensued. They aren't loose suggestions, they're real things that can prevent an issue from even occuring and save your hide if things get sporty. Everyone with a medical background (doctors, critical care nurses) are saying that the activity is inconsistant with a tia/stroke/ whatever, and the old hand cave divers seem to agree on the training/guideline thing. Hmm...

I've noticed something among almost all cave deaths: in every case, someone violated one of the hard and fast rules that have been around for years. (There are a few oxtox cases that were within the "limits", but oxygen is highly unpredictable, and I get that. )This lady, bruce, and even sheck himself all have something in common: they knowingly and intentionally broke the rules we all were taught. correlation doesn't have to mean causation, but they certainly go hand in hand here.

I'm a big fan of mentorship, but this was blatant violation of sensible cave diving, and it resulted in the loss of someone. Mentorship can and often is conducted safely, efficiently, and within the core tenents of cave diving, however, this wasn't it. I feel bad for her buddy, I really do. No one should have to go through that, and my hope is that it never has to happen again.

There really is a culture of breaking guideline rules in the florida cave community. I've seen it many times, people openly talk about it, and its virtually accepted at places like ginnie and aparently peacock. No one wants to offend anyone or call out the nonsense. How high does the count get? Joe, yessic, bruce, this lady, and I'm sure I've missed some. People knew (and in some cases, facilitated) what was going on, and kept quiet. I'm not talking about not running a line 3ft to peanut, I'm talking about divers doing multiple visuals, and diving way over their heads, suspect gas plans/ gases (eagles nest fatalities) and the sort.

Its a real thing, and we need to self police or we will be policed. In the meantime, we'll lose friends.

 

[Cave Diver]

There were no lines, no cookies, no verification dive (to confirm you can complete the dive on gas/time/ guideline), no formal training on jumps/ circuits...and yet 'medical' has come up as a potential cause???? If all that was followed, what's to panic about? It wasn't followed, and an accident ensued.

There are several things that could have led to panic. Narcosis, CO2 from exertion, malaise from a medical condition or maybe just having a bad day.

But I agree to dismiss the rule violations as a factor is doing a disservice. If this had been a true intro dive, done on 1/6ths on mainline penetration only with no jumps, the odds of the diver panicking and getting to far into the cave to get out safely would have been greatly reduced in my opinion.

 

[rjack321]

There really is a culture of breaking guideline rules in the florida cave community. I've seen it many times, people openly talk about it, and its virtually accepted at places like ginnie and aparently peacock. No one wants to offend anyone or call out the nonsense.

First time I went to JB I was convinced that a primary wasn't necessary (by a well meaning buddy). Just couldn't be silted out, just stop swimming the flow blows you out etc. Afterwards I told him it didn't like it, it didn't feel like serious cave diving to me, and that I probably wouldn't do it again.

I went back with a different buddy a year later and we scootered, running a reel. I have a few hundred OW dives with scooters, including running line on occasion but never in JB-like current. My attempts at keeping ahold of a standard gavin on a stage in flow while doing a tieoff practically on my knees were downright comical. Its a good thing its practically impossible to silt-out JB's cavern. Only way to get better/proficient is to do it. But dammit there was a continuous guideline.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I went back with a different buddy a year later and we scootered, running a reel. I have a few hundred OW dives with scooters, including running line on occasion but never in JB-like current. My attempts at keeping ahold of a standard gavin on a stage in flow while doing a tieoff practically on my knees were downright comical. Its a good thing its practically impossible to silt-out JB's cavern. Only way to get better/proficient is to do it. But dammit there was a continuous guideline.

They should put a sign up just past the gold line at JB saying, "WELCOME TO FLORIDA"









PS: the flow is down quite a bit right now

 

[rjack321]

But I agree to dismiss the rule violations as a factor is doing a disservice. If this had been a true intro dive, done on 1/6ths on mainline penetration only with no jumps, the odds of the diver panicking and getting to far into the cave to get out safely would have been greatly reduced in my opinion.

On 5/6ths in peanut she would turned back towards P1 and been between the buddy and the P1 exit. Or if on the P-O, ended up between her buddy and either P1 or Olsen. In either case the buddy would have had way more control over the situation and had a chance of "shepherding" her out ahead of him.

 

[Cave Diver]

They should put a sign up just past the gold line at JB saying, "WELCOME TO FLORIDA"

There used to be a sign just after crossing the border into Florida on I-10 that said

"Welcome to Florida. Now SLOW DOWN!" Might put that one there instead.