poll: DM everywhere?

[Thalassamania]

Go to Tahoe in the winter and take an ice diving class.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

I voted other. While the reality is that most DM's train in one type of environment and stay there or places like it, they should not be. A well trained DM has the experience and mastery in all conditions. They should be well trained and capable of handling warm clear water or cold low vis water. They should be well rounded as divers if they are carrying professional ratings.

The reality is that many DM's are provincial and do not really operate at the professional level out of their element. As a warm water location, we go down to the 10's c, here in the winter.
I made sure that I am steady using and training with my drysuit. I still prefer warm water, mind you. I make sure that I travel to other areas and keep All of my skills sharp. Many just are not in a position to do that.
But, if I were back DM'ing, and I moved to new location, I would still want to aquaint myself with it and the conditions of that area, as well as the needs of the divers. It is just professional to do that.

 

[DevonDiver]

They're a fact of life during winter fresh water diving. You can help avoid them by pre-warming your regs (at least not leaving them outside in the cold pre-dive) and also by amended your pre-dive safety check.

If free-flow occurs.... then, as I discovered, the standard technique for breathing from the free-flow is far from optimum.

All info that is 'expected knowledge' in a temperate/cold water DM.

 

[emilyrose]

Go to Tahoe in the winter and take an ice diving class.

Been there in the summer, and considering that even in summer I ran into the problem that with all the clothes I had on under my drysuit I couldn't fit enough weight in my BC (and btw, wearing a weight belt with a BC that's not meant to need one pretty much sucks), I don't think I'll be trying it in the winter any time soon...

 

[Thalassamania]

Dump the weight integrated BC, especially with a dry suit it is asking for problems. Go with a weight harness system and a regular BC or a BP/W, you'll be infinitely more comfortable and much better trimmed.

 

[Quero]

Wait, what does it even mean for a reg to be inverted? Definitely what we covered in my OW course involved the reg being "stuck" (actually, it involved holding down the purge button, but it was meant to simulate it being somehow stuck/broken), and I've never seen a free flow in any context other than intentional practice ones, in cold or warm water...

Sometimes when a reg enters the water with the mouthpiece facing up, even the small differential pressure makes the reg free flow. All you need to do is turn it over so the mouthpiece is facing down in the water. We see this a lot with the AAS on giant stride entries and even in the pool when I put the whole scuba unit in the water to don in the shallow end. Anyway, the sipping skill isn't needed for this kind of free flow.

 

[String]

I see pretty much daily the problem of DMs (and normal divers) learning in one place and struggling elsewhere.

Where i am currently i doubt there's an easier place on the planet to dive. We get calm seas, sheltered bays, pretty much zero current and visibility thats 10-30m every single day of the year. That and warm(ish) water. Its like a large swimming pool.

We get people learning here, heading elsewhere and rapidly getting caught out.

Worse are the "zero to hero" DM courses you see everywhere. These take people with no experience and train them up to a leadership level with no experience of any conditions except where they've trained. So you have DMs with no experience of currents, low vis, rough seas, large boats or cold water. Is anyone seriously claiming a person like that could or should take someone diving elsewhere without first learning the conditions and techniques themselves?
You don't learn adaptations like that in a book. Its only something you get through experience. And experience is only got by doing the actual dives in those actual conditions!

People coming from cold water, low vis, high current areas can adapt to benign really easily, the opposite takes a lot longer regardless of grade.

As for freeflows, the OW method although nice to look at doesnt really simulate a proper first stage ice up freeflow where the reg flows with so much force it comes out of the mouth and starts spinning round the head!

 

[hg frogman]

1. Isn't dealing with a free flow a basic skill in open water courses? At least, in PADI courses it's one of the required skills. And considering it's something I learned even before my first open water dive, around the same time I learned to clear my mask in the pool, do people really make it as far as divemaster without learning to do that? That's not to say the broader point isn't still valid just changing the example to maybe something involving drysuits or something, but do people really not know how to deal with a free flow?

2. Isn't part of the point of diving with a divemaster not just that they can help with any problems and such, but also that they know the area and where the best dive sites are, and can take you to cool sites (and get back to the boat again)?

These are very good questions.

1) Breathing from a free flowing regulator is taught during the OW course indeed. But practically speaking, when your buddy (or client) experiences a free flow, you'd better react as with an OOA (give him/her your octopus, then sort out what's going on with the free flow). And when it happens to yourself it's more comfortable to do like DevonDiver says, ie use your alternate air source. But in some exceptional situations it may save your life to be able to suck air from your free-flowing second stage, hence the interest of this skill.

By the way, in certain places around the world it's far from uncommon to experience a free flow from a junk rental regulator. This free flow is not due to the second stage being inverted, but merely to poor maintenance of the reg. But usually the flow is so much less than with a frozen stuck regulator that it cannot compare with it (and often it's the octo that free flows first). Bottom line is, when you rent a reg, check that it works properly before going underwater with it. (Hints: a) on land, breathe gently from your seconds, reg closed, no air should come in, it should feel like an OOA ; b) connect to a tank, open the valve, breathe, should feel fine, not hard to breathe ; c) still connected to an open tank's valve, immerse your seconds - not inverted - in a bucket of water, should not free-flow, either gently (intermittent bubbles) or strongly).

2) You are right, a divemaster is not here for "helping with any problem", but for GUIDING his/her CERTIFIED clients. That means chosing an adequate dive site, doing a decent briefing, providing surface security, (often but not always) showing the way underwater, making sure everybody is back on the boat, and stuff like that ... That doesn't mean wiping the a** of the clients (sorry if I am rude).

Of course a DM will try to help as much as possible, but sometimes it is simply not possible. A DM, however talented and experienced, cannot control everything underwater. "Formally", the job of a DM is not to give assistance to his/her clients if they are in trouble underwater. These clients are certified and should help and assist each others among buddies. This is most probably the line of defense that will be taken in court by the DM defenders in case of a fatality. The defense of the DM will be much harder if this DM showed a poor judgement in choosing the dive site (eg too difficult for the clients), provided an inadequate briefing, or didn't count the clients back on board ; but if the DM guides 8 people, with good conditions (viz, current ...), and the two last buddies at the back of the group get in trouble, can't help each other, and screw it up, the DM defenders will argue the DM is not responsible about the shortcomings of these divers, and in many cases they will win.

There is an interesting (and recent) thread on SB about this, I don't remember where. This thread shows that some clients are expecting total service, assistance and control from the DM (like if they weren't certified) while some others are expecting the DM to do merely his/her job of DM, ie providing the logistics and describing/showing the way to go. This discrepancy of expectations comes in my opinion from many, many OW divers with a few logged dives not being able to dive without very close supervision underwater, despite what training agencies may tell these divers about their capacities.

 

[emilyrose]

Dump the weight integrated BC, especially with a dry suit it is asking for problems. Go with a weight harness system and a regular BC or a BP/W, you'll be infinitely more comfortable and much better trimmed.

I like my BC
And I'm not really in a position to get a new one anytime soon anyway. But even if I were, the rental ones I used before I got my own, which didn't have integrated weights, were always too big, and the one I ended up with was the only one I could find that was small enough (and even so it takes some effort to adjust it small enough, which is as small as it will go, when I don't have a drysuit under it), so finding a different one might be easier said than done. Although I suppose it would probably be easier if I only needed it to fit over a drysuit. But in my BC's defense, the only reason I can't fit enough weight in it is that the smallest sizes have fewer weight pockets -- if I could wear one two sizes bigger I could fit more weight than I've ever needed...

 

[Crush]

They're a fact of life during winter fresh water diving. You can help avoid them by pre-warming your regs (at least not leaving them outside in the cold pre-dive) and also by amended your pre-dive safety check.

If free-flow occurs.... then, as I discovered, the standard technique for breathing from the free-flow is far from optimum.

All info that is 'expected knowledge' in a temperate/cold water DM.

Some advice on avoiding or dealing with cold-induced free-flow: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/350887-free-flow-what-do.html

Edit: DevonDiver, I am not assuming that you don't know how to deal with a free-flow. This is general FYI information for newer divers.