Pony Bottles on NJ Charters?

[Rainer]

Was just reading the dive requirements for one of the NJ boats and noticed that if diving singles, they require all divers (including students) to have a pony bottle:

Gypsyblood Dives: New Jersey's Best Full Service Dive Charter Operation

I've seen additional posts in the past about other NJ boats having similar requirements (some form of gas redundancy).

Any reason for this? NJ law (if so, what are the specifics)? State insurance requirement?

I routinely do dives in the 100' range on a large single (no pony). I'm always with a competent teammate and I have no doubt we'd execute a lovely ascent in the unlikely case of a gear failure leading to an OOG scenario.

Do NJ divers (for the most part, not trying to generalize to all divers) lack the ability to donate gas and ascend while sharing? I'm assuming, for whatever (surely interesting, but for a different discussion) reason, team diving isn't emphasized in NJ.

For what it's worth, I have several hundred dives in the North Atlantic (mostly MA, but also RI and ME). While the conditions can be challenging (low vis, currents, cold water), I didn't find them to preclude diving singles in recreational depths with a competent team.

Just strikes me as a gear solution to a skills problem.

 

[parzdiver]

Just strikes me as a gear solution to a skills problem.

I have not dived with an operation requiring a pony bottle, but it very well may be a gear solution to a skills problem. But when you think about it, the boat operation can ensure the diver has particular gear, it would be extremely difficult to ensure the diver has particular skill.

I do know that Jersey diving can be more challenging than diving in many other locales. This is the operations way to ensure an additional safety factor.

 

[idocsteve]

I have not dived with an operation requiring a pony bottle, but it very well may be a gear solution to a skills problem.

A pony bottle could also save the life of a diver with good skills, who does everything "right" but suffers a catastrophic gear failure at depth.

 

[Rainer]

The boat operation also has no way to ensure that the diver in question is even remotely competent at deploying and using the pony. At least every OW diver was taught how to share gas (and yes, clearly they aren't actually all competent to do so, but at least they were shown and required to do this in a class at some point; that cannot be said for the pony in most cases).

While NJ diving surely is more challenging than that found in some other locations, one would think this demands greater diver skill, not just greater dive gear.

the boat operation can ensure the diver has particular gear, it would be extremely difficult to ensure the diver has particular skill.

I do know that Jersey diving can be more challenging than diving in many other locales. This is the operations way to ensure an additional safety factor.

 

[Rainer]

Right, and so could a teammate. Why is the latter not viewed by certain (all?) NJ boats as equally valid?

I'd rather choose the option that adds a second brain to the equation.

A pony bottle could also save the life of a diver with good skills, who does everything "right" but suffers a catastrophic gear failure at depth.

 

[idocsteve]

Right, and so could a teammate. Why is the latter not viewed by certain (all?) NJ boats as equally valid?

I'd rather choose the option that adds a second brain to the equation.

Diving with a buddy in the poor visibility common to the waters off of NY and NJ is problematic, as is a dive boat operator hooking up two divers without knowing the skill level of each.

 

[Rainer]

Again, I have a fair amount of dive experience in the North Atlantic. The visibility (and currents and temperatures) aren't by themselves a reason to require redundant gas. Good team skills will suffice.

As for instabuddies, I certainly agree that's one place I'd want redundant gas, but I've never had an instabuddy for a dive, so it's hardly been a concern for me. For those coming to the boat with a competent team in place, what's the argument for the pony?

Diving with a buddy in the poor visibility common to the waters off of NY and NJ is problematic, as is a dive boat operator hooking up two divers without knowing the skill level of each.

 

[a22shady]

As I understand it. You have to dive with some sort of redundancy. It can be either a Pony or doubles. I am not sure why this is manadatory probably more so to insurance but also safety. not everyone going out on a boat goes with a buddy some go solo and team with someone in which case you do not know your buddy and in the event of a major situation if you turn to a buddy who is not there. Better to rely on yourself 1st.

 

[idocsteve]

Again, I have a fair amount of dive experience in the North Atlantic. The visibility (and currents and temperatures) aren't by themselves a reason to require redundant gas. Good team skills will suffice.

Visibility can be a foot or less. That makes buddy separation a real possibility, even with good buddy skills, in which case you're diving solo like it or not and the redundant gas might be the only option for you when you blow a hose at 130 feet and you can't see your hand in front of your face.

 

[Rainer]

Right. I'm mostly interested in why this is mandatory.

I don't have a problem with a boat recommending redundancy. I don't even have a problem with them requiring redundancy for solo divers or those showing up alone (i.e. who'd be diving with instabuddies, so possibly effectively alone).

In all my dives in the North Atlantic, I never ONCE lost a teammate. If team diving is a priority, team separation is incredibly unlikely. The chance of also going out of gas at that exact moment (two significant simultaneous failures) just strikes me as absurd.

As I understand it. You have to dive with some sort of redundancy. It can be either a Pony or doubles. I am not sure why this is manadatory probably more so to insurance but also safety. not everyone going out on a boat goes with a buddy some go solo and team with someone in which case you do not know your buddy and in the event of a major situation if you turn to a buddy who is not there. Better to rely on yourself 1st.